when you whip out the toy..are you showing excitment too? when you try to redirect him and he gets worse or can't think straight..are you trying to get his attention with excitment? If so that may feed the already excited situation.
maybe the tug is too high value for a reward? Have you tried putting Tenzin on a long line and throwing somthing instead? maybe an orby would help? help burn off excess energy, help keep you out of harms way, and get his attention on a moving object. just a thought..
I too had a similar behaved pup..still do..but not NEARLY as bad as he once was. So i feel your pain I was also told maybe tethering him to you while in the house would help. can't really take off running and jumping and being crazy if your in control of his movement. If you step on the leash it will stop the ability of jumping on your leg or anything else. then when Tenzin calms down throw a ball/orby.and when you get frustrated just put him in time out in the crate or x-pen.
Just sharing what i have been told in my many difficult situations don't worry...it WILL get better..just listen to the advice these guys and gals have..They know allllll about high intensity They are WONDERFUL teachers!

Here is a video of us playing tug. Do keep in mind this is not a dog with super high prey drive (he is not a working line Mal or GSD.lol). He was tied to a tree with no attention what so ever the first year of his life, so no one really flipped the food or prey drive swithches on when he was young. It's been a challenge to get him this motivated. http://youtu.be/0rf5WeAy_Uk

He's got plenty of drive!

With the bite pillow you never let him win and it was all about OB. At 4:46 he completely lost interest for a second because it was just no fun - too much OB, no wins, too many misses.

With the tug he finally started having fun when you threw it for him but as soon as he got going at 7:07 you squished him completely and ended the game : he finally brings the tug to you and you take it away, make a miss and ask for more OB I'd be bummed out too.

Another thing you might try is doing several reps of the same exercise instead of asking him for a different thing every time. He'll know what to expect and you'll be able to improve performance through repetition.

He's very sweet And he wants to play with you and do food stuff with you. I wouldn't worry about dominance etc. but try to improve the food play and tug play.

Do you have the tug DVD?

Also when he initiates the play when you have the bite pillow or tug by jumping up on you it is ok...but when you want him to work for the food treats...the jumping is NOT ok. That would be very confusing for the dog. Unless you are releasing him...& I couldn't hear that.

But as Ana said: he seems to have drive & wants to play. He just needs to be able to win & get to really play. Evey time he starts to get into it...you ask for an out.

Play with him for a minute or so & let him win the tug or pillow. Let him hold his reward for 15-20 sec. Put him on a line if you think that he will run away with it, so that you can keep him near you. Don't want to teach him to run away with it. That way he has to stay with you, but can HOLD his won tug or pillow & enjoy his reward.

He should start bringing it back to you & even bumping you with it to initiate play again if you get it right.

I appreciate all the advice on marker training you guys have definately pointed out some mistakes I'm making and it makes alot of sense because I feel he goes in and out of being engaged with me, it only gets worse outside

I do have the ME dvd's believe it or not I watch them alot. lol
Simple but not easy I guess.

How long do you think my sessions should last ?

 Quote: Anne Jones

Also when he initiates the play when you have the bite pillow or tug by jumping up on you it is ok...but when you want him to work for the food treats...the jumping is NOT ok. That would be very confusing for the dog.

I feel there is a difference between him jumping into me to get the tug (I was releasing him) and the mounting, mouthing, barking, and circling behavior.

Like I said this is not a behavior that only shows up during marker training, he has had this problem since day one before I even knew what marker training was or how to even play tug.

Ex: I let Tenzin out to go to the bathroom 99% of the time he will come in when called, but sometimes I will call him in and he will lay down in the grass. I will step outside and approach him tell him no come and an episode will start. He will run into me start barking and running around the yard in zoomie mode.

 Quote: Brent Petersen

How long do you think my sessions should last ?

It depends on how long you can have Tenzin engaged with you. Watch him and try to end the session before he starts losing interest and checking out. Pump him up and get a good 2-3 minutes and see where you can go from there.

The duration of the sessions also depends on how long you can stay focused. It is hard to watch the dog AND watch what you are doing at the same time. Practice the moves without the dog.

 Quote: Brent Petersen

Ex: I let Tenzin out to go to the bathroom 99% of the time he will come in when called, but sometimes I will call him in and he will lay down in the grass. I will step outside and approach him tell him no come and an episode will start. He will run into me start barking and running around the yard in zoomie mode.

Don't give him commands you are not able to reinforce. If he knows Come he should get corrected for not complying.

Considering your history with e-collar I wouldn't be using it at this point. Nothing wrong with having Tenzin wear it (turned off), though.

The demanding jumping and barking and the crazy acting is a discipline issue. Give him plenty of outlets for his energy in play and training and make him behave at other times. A choker (takes drive out) might work better than a prong (might build drive) in this case.

Zoomies to me are a dogs way of getting rid of pent up energy/frustration.

Im sure you're exercising him enough, but is there a certain time his zoomies start? I mean is it usually in the morning that it happens, or after he's been in the crate and let outside?

Im trying to figure out if it's just his way of "destressing" after being inside or in the crate for a bit.

" I let Tenzin out to go to the bathroom 99% of the time he will come in when called, but sometimes I will call him in and he will lay down in the grass. I will step outside and approach him tell him no come and an episode will start. He will run into me start barking and running around the yard in zoomie mode."


This to me sounds like you have played "catch me" in the past (game to him and frustration to you -- but your error). I'd start over with the recall. A dog who is not being overwhelmed with something aromatic and/or interesting in another way and refuses to comply with the recall to me means simple lack of sufficient proofing, to make sure I do before corrections. But this -- to me means that he has reason to expect that you will call, call again, move forward, and then chase him around. Where else could he have learned this?

 Quote: wendy lefebvre

Zoomies to me are a dogs way of getting rid of pent up energy/frustration.

Im sure you're exercising him enough, but is there a certain time his zoomies start? I mean is it usually in the morning that it happens, or after he's been in the crate and let outside?

Im trying to figure out if it's just his way of "destressing" after being inside or in the crate for a bit.

Ditto. I have one who has zoomies whenever he is frustrated over it not being his turn to marker train.

He actually does it in a non-intrusive way, but it's very clear: He watches the session, inching as close as he dares, kind of trembling (paw up, like Arnold Horshack), and then goes off to the side to zoom back and forth until he's calm again and comes back to wait.

I'm just saying that watching what triggers it is a good thing.

When I think about it yes the majority of the time it is after work when he has been in his crate. That would make sense to that he has been having more flare ups lately because I have not been taking him to work with me.
He was having some fear issues here alot of people traffic, forklifts sounds, and smell overload (My family owns a small company that makes premixes for petfood companies, nutritional supplements, and pharmacuticals so we have a warehouse full of smelly pallets of alfalfa, kelp, seafood meal, chicken meal, etc.) Anyways he was having alot of fear issues here that started showing up at home so I stopped bringing him in about 2 months ago. I will make sure we do some fun games or walks to burn off energy before we get into any OB and see if that helps.

As far as correcting him for not coming in the outside situation I have been using his e-collar but I always try and say no first and repeat the command before I'm correcting him, most the time he knows that after no comes a correction so I better staighten up.

I would like to and have tried to stop using the e-collar but a prong, choke, or dominant collar correction jacks him up big time and then we have a blow up. I have always thought maybe being tied out for so long when he was young caused him alot of stress and sensitivity on neck.

On walks I use the prong and the e-collar. I have taught him leash pressure with the prong which stopped pulling problems and I use the e-collar for corrections. He does not flare up with a prong correction as much if the e-collar is on as well, I think he knows he can't beat the e-collar by rolling over or wrapping up the leash. I will try keeping the e-collar on but power off.