Wow, Kadi...I would never have thought about using the place command as a mid point in teaching this alone to a dog that didn't do a send away.

I admit that I never thought much about it, though, since my dogs are taught the send out just as part of their training. But I really like that idea. Should have know you or one of you guys that have been at this way longer then me, would have this in your bag of tricks. LOL

 Quote: Anne Jones

I trained SchH not AKC. So I am not familier with their classes.

I understand. For me it was the opposite. I had been exposed to nothing but AKC type competition for a very long time. I had heard of SchH but didn't know much about it. I'm enjoying learning a lot about SchH, Mondio and other dog sports through this board.

Thank you SO much for your post, Kadi. It's really given me some food for thought, since I'm having an issue with the sit w/ distance on Birdie.

Damn bird dog still refuses to lay down on command, though.

Thanks guys, I now some idea to work with. Harley will down from either verbal or hand signal. But he could run in front of a train to come to me.

I will try the casual approach, but also will start working on a send away once he get a down when he just walk around.

I did schutzhund, so a down/sit in motion on recall was not trained but for emergency situations I have successfully used a "stay" command (in our case - blijf)
I practiced it in all kinds of daily interactions, that whenever I said "blijf" he was to freeze and wait. Very helpful getting in and out of cars and when there is danger nearby and we're separated!

LOL -very cool, but how do you pronounce it?

This has been an extremely helpful thread. I have a nice sit in motion but seem to need a LOT of body language to even approximate a down in heel. My trainer is much more successful with it -any further tips on how you guys attained fluency with the heeling down??

She knows "go to place" and downs automaticaly there. She has also now learned the touch pad (for agility) and is starting to jump on that tub like it's a treat vending machine. I'm a bit concerned about muddying the nice contact and "touch" for our beginning agility by chaining the down with "go to place" but that's way creative!

I'd be happy with a somewhat fast, elegant down in motion at this point!

To many train the drop on recall, SchH sendout and drop as one exercise.
A few simple things to remember with the drop on recall in AKC or the drop on the Schutzhund sendout.
The dog has to have an absolute solid drop that is done "randomly" from any position, at any time that you "or" the dog is in. Random, random, RANDOM!
Next, the reason you see dogs slow down so much in this exercise is simply that folks start putting the drop in with every recall. "STOP THAT"!
It's the same with the send out in Schutzhund. If you down the dog to often in conjunction with either the send out or drop on recall then the dog starts anticipating the drop.
In both Schutzhund and AKC Open I rarely drop the dog more then once every 10-15 send outs/recalls.
This keeps BOTH the drop and the sendout/recall as separate exercises and when needed (if they're both solid) putting them together is a piece of cake.
Same thing with the walking/running sit, down, stand in Schutzhund.
Your movement when giving these commands are nothing more then a high level distraction to the dog. Get the drop, sit, stand, whatever, solid as a rock before you tie it into another behavior.
Train solid as separate behaviors and combine them as an exercise RANDOMLY!
Also in the AKC drop on recall I will mark and reward (release) the drop many more times then I give the next come/here/front command. The dog never slows down/anticipates.
In Schutzhund training the drop on the sendout is rewarded more often then not rather then finish the whole exercise by walking all the way to the dog and finish the exercise.

 Quote: hilarie coby

LOL -very cool, but how do you pronounce it?

This has been an extremely helpful thread. I have a nice sit in motion but seem to need a LOT of body language to even approximate a down in heel. My trainer is much more successful with it -any further tips on how you guys attained fluency with the heeling down??

She knows "go to place" and downs automatically there. She has also now learned the touch pad (for agility) and is starting to jump on that tub like it's a treat vending machine. I'm a bit concerned about muddying the nice contact and "touch" for our beginning agility by chaining the down with "go to place" but that's way creative!

I'd be happy with a somewhat fast, elegant down in motion at this point!

In reading this, the only body language your dog needs is your footwork and timing.
A heeling dog should be following your left leg. Give the drop as your left leg hits the ground.
Being inconsistent in this is as confusing to the dog ans any thing else.
Also, saying the dog needs LOTS of extra body language tells me the sit/down isn't done randomly enough to be consistent as a separate exercise. Read my above post!

Bob, that's great information. I learned a lot from those posts, heck I learn a lot from all your posts.

Thank you.

 Quote: Bob Scott

In reading this, the only body language your dog needs is your footwork and timing.
A heeling dog should be following your left leg. Give the drop as your left leg hits the ground.

Yup...And while the position commands have been worked regularly, and randomly, they have been too much in front of me -especially the down -the teacher at our club pointed that out last night as well...so thanks very much Bob -this is working better already!