I've never really every taught a "quiet" command. I just tell them to do something, sitz, platz or something. Oh I've yelled at them to be quiet but that was only for me to vent.

 Quote: dennis jones

I've never really every taught a "quiet" command. I just tell them to do something, sitz, platz or something. Oh I've yelled at them to be quiet but that was only for me to vent.

Even better, Dennis!

Like just about any unwanted behavior, it can't be happening if another behavior that's incompatible is happening instead.

I have taught "quiet" more than once, though. I have a screamer, and I have also had a barkbarkbarkbark guy.

One recent time was kinda tricky: a getting-deaf senior would vocalize (kind of a whine-mumble) while waiting for anything: the supper bowl, his leash to be clipped on to go out, his turn for a marker session ..... It was kinda tricky because I wasn't 100% sure that the deaf-ish guy was even aware of the noise.

But yeah, waiting for and then capturing "quiet" with M/R is working. We are still working on it, but it's coming along nicely.

In his case, I look right at his face to verbal-mark to make sure he hears/sees it.

The Mal puppy will be easier, in that sense. (But only in that sense..... )

I have a VERY VERY vocal, somewhat hectic, male. He is a screamer & a real whiner etc. But he has LEARNED that he doesn't get to eat, go outside to play etc etc etc UNTIL HE IS QUIET & CALM!!!! This dog has been a whiner since 8 weeks old.

My female is a very high drive vocal girl. She is a REAL screamer,but not really as much of a whiner as he is. There are people here that I have trained with & know what a crazy screamer she is. She is even WORSE if she thinks that she is gong to 'play' with the decoy. Same rules apply to her.

Both of these dogs will SCREAM, in the truck,all the way to the field where I run them, when we leave the house & turn left. Rules still apply. They don't get out of the truck crates until they sit & are quiet. They are taken out of the truck & downed on the side of the field next to the truck & not released until they are quiet. The rule carries thru EVERYWHERE.

Consistancy is the key to training this. Loose you patience one time 'cause you are in a hurry...you blow it & have to start over.

Teaching quiet is not easy. It takes time & patience & doesn't happen quickly. There are days when I will open & then close the back door multiple times before they are allowed out. They sit & are quiet then the door is opened...dog starts to whine etc...as I put my hand on door knob...I remove my hand. Try again..same result if not quiet & sitting. Some days are easier then others.

These are crazy well trained adult dogs & often forget they are NOT untrained pups.

I have never really had any crate issues with either dog.

They need to learn self control. But that is not easy for a puppy. It will take alot of time..if this pup is that determined. But he will learn. Mark the good behavior. DON"T punish..but ignor the bad.

Just my experience.

Great recap, Anne, and great emphasis on consistency.


"Consistancy is the key to training this. Loose you patience one time 'cause you are in a hurry ... you blow it & have to start over.

Teaching quiet is not easy. It takes time & patience & doesn't happen quickly. There are days when I will open & then close the back door multiple times before they are allowed out. They sit & are quiet then the door is opened...dog starts to whine etc...as I put my hand on door knob...I remove my hand. Try again..same result if not quiet & sitting. Some days are easier then others. "



Yup! You can never skip the rule. Well, of course you CAN, and we all do, but every time we do, it's a big fat setback. All we have taught is that if the dog really really tries, then he CAN get what he wants with the vocalizing. LOL

Self-rewarding behaviors like vocalizing require all the consistency and patience we can muster.

But "quiet" can indeed be taught.

I ignore the noise completely (as Dennis said: ear plugs! Or at least imaginary ones!), zero reward (and of course, even negative attention is rewarding it), and couple that with split-second mark/reward to capture the second of silence so I have the "quiet" behavior identified for the dog.

The crucial parts for me are

 Quote: faisal khan

... a hefty ignore from you ....

and that instant recognition of "quiet" so it's identified for the dog.

Samantha,

If 3.5 months is correct; I agree with Anne to tether to you and Dennis to ignore screaming and basically follow all suggestions put forth.. Sounds to me you have a pup with high pack drive. Pros and cons come with every drive but I personally like pack drive. Who doesn't want to be the end all of their pup's life?

Connecting with others is paramount to these pups so no surprise that panic ensues when they are barred from access to the pack. Panic is often portrayed as screaming, escapism to join the pack and a determination to free themselves from any containment.

Tethering keeps the pup safe but allows him to return to you and be in your vicinity as his confidence grows as he matures. Ignoring the screaming does not reward the behavior so it will fade as an unsuccessful behavior but with such a young pup I would do my best to avoid him entering that panicked state.

I think pretty much the posts before mine offer advice which will go far in helping your pup gain the confidence and maturity he needs to contend with temporary pack seperation but I would not expect that to happen overnight......I think Thor was almost 3 before he was able to go to a baseball game and not cry or whine because one of my kids was on the field and we were watching from behind a fence.

At your pup's age I stopped taking him to the games after 2 frantic episodes; and began to work on confidence building. Your boy is a baby; take it slow.

"Connecting with others is paramount to these pups so no surprise that panic ensues when they are barred from access to the pack."



Oh, yes, that's a crucial reminder! Good catch, Sheila.

I'll just add that if you have been using "Quiet" and haven't been able to have Radar respond appropriately, the word itself might not be useful because Radar might associate it with making noise. It might be more expedient to start with a new word or gesture that means Quiet - for example, "Hush" and maybe finger to the lips is the gestural cue.

You could start by teaching Hush when he is already quiet, after a good meal, and when he is sleepy or even asleep. Name that state of mind and treat it, or click and treat and then add the name to it after. If you ignore the unwanted state, and then mark/click and treat the desired state, Radar will start to associate Hush with good things. This won't work, however, if what is being asked of Radar is beyond his capacity as a 3.5 month old high pack drive Mal. Your expectations have to be realistic so you can set him up for success.

.02 from a newbie

Ya know, I have to say that although I said that putting the pup in a quiet area covered might help. I said that because she seemed to feel that it upset her to hear the pup screaming & going balistic. I NEVER did that with any of my pups. They were always in the room that I was in. They were never isolated. I felt that if they had to be crated that I still wanted them to be part of the 'action' of my lifestyle whatever that included. But then it didn't bother me if they whined or cried. I just ignored it.

I always had crates all over the house. Before I had multiple crates..I carried the 1 crate that I had upstairs to my bedroom at night. Yes, my dogs have ALL slept in my bedroom, all of them, all of their lives from day one. Young pups, right next to my bed. Older dogs on their beds (or my female on mine when I invite her up) or in crates. I want my dogs to have a strong pack mentality & I want them to be with me as much as possible.

That is just my way & what works for me. I think that everyone has to do what works best for them.

 Quote: Anne Jones

That is just my way & what works for me. I think that everyone has to do what works best for them.

So True!!

I'm definitely taking things slow, I definitely remind myself all the time that he's just a baby. It's something that comes out of my mouth frequently with Clark when he gets annoyed at his antics or misbehavior. 'He's just a baby, Clark. He'll get there eventually.'

I ALWAYS use positive training methods and use clickers/marker training. He's responding beautifully.

Lots of great things written here, lots to think about. I didn't even think that 'quiet' has lost it's meaning, now. I'll start using something else, and try to capture the behavior.

For the record I have to dog guards up for the cargo area of my Jeep. I drop the back seat down and set up the two sections so that I can separate them. Two of the big dogs will step and lay on the puppy, and it PO's him like it's nobody's business, so he gets to have his own little section with the big girl that respects his space. He can still reach the backs of the front seats and claw at them, and claw at the windows and doors/walls and see out, which is why I'm thinking about putting him in a crate.

20 mile hikes with a 3 1/2 month old dog? It's completely possible. Slow pace, lots of stops, lots of natural water to play in and bottled water to drink. We've done it twice now, it takes us all day (5 am start, 9 pm end), and even at the very end he's running circles around me, pestering the adults to play with him. I should get him on video, leashed and attached to my belt, trying to tow me down the trail because I'm not walking fast enough for him, and that's around mile 15.

I really couldn't ask for a better puppy, even despite his freak out moments because I'm not there and it's the end of the world. I hadn't really thought about what that behavior is called, but 'high pack drive' sounds about right, and without even knowing, that's exactly what I wanted.