We took the pups to the vet today. the one that got attacked is ok, he has some puncture wounds but his airway is not damaged, his nasals are fine and they sad it shouldnt leave a scar. Rocky has a habit of eating plants and the theory is this: he ate a stinging nettle which cause disorientation and aggrivation added to the food aggresion ( he percieved the plant as food) caused him to rage out against the puppie. The vet said that otherwise rcky os fine, no pain, bloodwork, hips back, eyes, ears and foot pads looks great .. the vet was kinda annoyed that iwanted a full check up but i told him, im paying for it so jsut do it. Also got a full "pug" check up for the pups and added this insident to their passports. It may have been an accident but the fact is, ... i jsut dont know for sure and i feel that anyone that buys the pups has a right to know.

Since we put rocky in his crate after the attack yesterday he refuses to eat or drink. The vet said it could be because of the nettle and not to worry, he will eat when hes hugry and not to try and tempt him with and treats, if this jsut a temper tantrum or ... ? I called the bredder i got him from and they said the hae had no reports of any aggression in his line, does this matter? can it jsut pop up in one and not the others? are they lieing? or is it truly something else?

 Quote: Selene lindhout

Rocky has a habit of eating plants and the theory is this: he ate a stinging nettle which cause disorientation and aggrivation added to the food aggresion ( he percieved the plant as food) caused him to rage out against the puppie. The vet said that otherwise rcky os fine, no pain, bloodwork, hips back, eyes, ears and foot pads looks great ..

Since we put rocky in his crate after the attack yesterday he refuses to eat or drink. The vet said it could be because of the nettle and not to worry, he will eat when hes hugry and not to try and tempt him with and treats, if this jsut a temper tantrum or

Whose theory is that? The vet's?

If he ate a stinging nettle, perhaps his mouth is sore and it is painful for him to eat.

What exactly were the circumstances when he bit the puppy? Outside? Toys around?

How are you managing his interaction with the other dogs now?

"Rocky has a habit of eating plants and the theory is this: he ate a stinging nettle which cause disorientation and aggrivation added to the food aggresion ( he percieved the plant as food) caused him to rage out against the puppie. "



Was this said seriously? That he was having a food-aggression episode over growing plants, and a stinging nettle aggravated the food aggression?

"Since we put rocky in his crate after the attack yesterday he refuses to eat or drink. The vet said it could be because of the nettle and not to worry"

How long since he has had water to drink? Any at all?

They where outside when he bit the puppie, ther are no toys, bones, food stuff, balls or anything out there. He does eat plants out there which i dont like because its usule my vegtable garden plants or my grapevines but he did have the stinger fromt he nettle still in his mouth and was trated for it by the vet.

They think he was aggitated by the nettles which he saw as a food item, then the puppie came by, hed never snapped before so they think (yea the vet) that he displayed food aggression over the plant and in the aggrivated state he snapped at the puppie.

I boiled some of the nettle witch makes a tea that oddly enough sooths the sting from the nettle and gave this to rocky well diluted he drank it and then i made him a smoothie of eggs liver, salmon and chicken broth and he ate that as well. Hes also drinking diluted chicken broth.The vet said hed be fine if he didnt eat for a day or 2 and if it wasnt the nettle that it was a temper tantrum for being crated but i have never starved an animal in my life and im not about to start now.

For now Rocky is crated most of the time, i cannot trust him around the puppies anymore since i cant be sure if he was simply over aggrivated or if this is an issue but im not about to further risk the life of a puppie to find out. He is walked seperatly for now (ginger is also displaying symptoms of heat cycle so she is also seperatly crated)and whiles hes crated hes run a bit more for the exersize he doesnt get over day.


THe puppies are going for sale tomorrow but i will not release them till mid week since they were born early. Once that happens ill start reintrodusing rocky to ginger and the house tho how is a bit confusing. I trained GSD for many years but this guy is the most stubborn one ive ever had.. one day hes fine the next day he slamming against the leash. walking round poles barking at everything, wont come when you call him . treats dont work, markers, clickers nothing... litterly nothing works.. and the next week hes perfect in every way.

As for which part of the chiken .. i started giving them the legs and thighs whole , before i only gave them the filets w/o the bones and this is when the food aggresion started. They were fed raw before and i never had this problem. The vet (yea this guy again) said it could have soemthing to do with the psychological sound of the CRUNCH of these bigger bones is effecting him and putting him into a higher state, much the same way a squeeky toy does for some dogs.. The thrill of the kill sort of thing. I dont realy get it since i fed them whoel squab before and whole fish and this never happend but the vet said that these bones "make a more satifying crunch sound"

Any thoughts are higly appreciated .

 Quote:

They think he was aggitated by the nettles which he saw as a food item, then the puppie came by, hed never snapped before so they think (yea the vet) that he displayed food aggression over the plant and in the aggrivated state he snapped at the puppie.

I think it's more likely that he was stung and in pain and the pup just happened along at the wrong time. Since you are selling the pups soon, just keep him separated from them until they are gone, like you are doing now.

Regarding the raw meals and food aggression, you have to remember that raw food is a much higher value item than kibble. It is not an unusual thing for a dog to be resource guarding a raw meal, IMO.

To avoid the food aggression, you must feed him where he can feel secure in knowing that no one will bother him when he eats. So, you could crate him while he eats, and make sure that no other dogs or people approach his crate while he is eating. If you have 2 crates, feed them both at the same time in their crates. (and make sure the crates are far enough apart that there is no reaction from either dog, to the other dog)

Toys, treats etc should be given under supervision. Long lasting chewing treats should be given in the crate. Pick up the toys after you are done playing with the dog.

Much of this is just management on your part to avoid putting him in a situation where he is likely to show aggression...

(ps, although your vet might be a nice guy, I would not rely on him for advice about aggression, behavior, raw feeding, or training... )

PS

I want to ditto Lynne's PS, and also to add that training and behavior and aggression -- these are not what vets go to school for.

I would liken it in most cases to asking the pediatrician for help with the child's low arithmetic marks. Not a perfect analogy, but close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades.

I'm sure there are many many vets who are caught by clients asking them repeated behavior and training questions that they would rather not try to answer. I betcha the clients EXPECT and almost demand answers sometimes. (And maybe the vet feels experienced sometimes, too.) But either way, IMHO, it's almost never the right person to be asking.

JMO! Vet medicine is a big enough field as it is.

Yep ditto on the vet

Thighs and legs are really too large for your dogs, no wonder they are taking so long to eat them. Try feeding wings quarters, chicken backs or necks - obviously you'd have to add more muscle meat.

Rather than 'crunch' noise - it is probably the length of time it takes him to eat that is partly prompting the behaviour.
My male doesn't mind animals / people walking past him when he is eating but with a recreational bone he growls. Out of choice he goes into his crate with it, no one bothers him and we're all happy.

Vets do try to help with behavior questions because bad behavior is a leading cause of death. Biting,failure to housetrain and destructiveness in the home kills a lot of dogs. People really have a ton of basic questions.
An educated couple came to my farm last week for some vaccines for their pup.
He works at IBM and is a super bright guy. She asked why the puppy was "still pooping in the garage" after she had pushed his nose into stool 3 times!
Even I can give advice about that.....!

 Quote: betty landercasp

Vets do try to help with behavior questions because bad behavior is a leading cause of death. Biting,failure to housetrain and destructiveness in the home kills a lot of dogs. People really have a ton of basic questions.
An educated couple came to my farm last week for some vaccines for their pup.
He works at IBM and is a super bright guy. She asked why the puppy was "still pooping in the garage" after she had pushed his nose into stool 3 times!
Even I can give advice about that.....!

Wow...
That is a good point, Betty. Like anything else, I'm sure it depends on the individual vet. (and your advice is gold, in my book!)