When we are crate training/potty training a litter of pups we start at letting them out every two hours. My goal is that they do not have an accident in the crate.

You might have to go back to basics.

Yes, bottom line really is that she can't be left in the crate all day like that.

Did you have some kind of relief-plan (dog-walker, neighbor) in mind and it backfired?

This is both the soaking and the poop-eating habit's basis, IMO. These are becoming habits that need to be helped asap.

I would be arranging for several days with the puppy (spent mostly outdoors) and then regular relief during work hours.


PS
I know it was mentioned .... but please! Paragraphs!

 Quote: Betty Waldron

When we are crate training/potty training a litter of pups we start at letting them out every two hours. My goal is that they do not have an accident in the crate.

You might have to go back to basics.

Succinct and apropos!

I am so sorry you are dealing with this situation. I know it can be quite frustrating...

But the good news is that none of this is her fault and by retraining yourself, she can be a perfect both inside and outside the crate.

A poster above used an analogy of leaving a baby in the crib all day, and it is a very apt analogy, but I would say that it would be closer if you left no diaper on the baby. Your pup is learning to HATE the crate. To her it means seclusion, laying in waste, crying and, well, nothing good at all. She is too young to be ABLE to hold it, and she is being taught that peeing in the crate is the RIGHT and ONLY thing to do, no matter how miserable it is or wrong it feels.

Because she thinks that peeing in the crate is RIGHT and the ONLY thing to do when she has to go potty, she has been trained to do this. She can't differentiate between crate pottying when you are home vs. when you are not.

I would start with a new crate. An airline would be best and NO blankets (they can absorb the urine and make it easier for her to lay in it with more comfort, some will even pee on the bedding and push it out of the way). She CAN NOT stay in there for more than TWO hours at a time (that time will increase as you train her to not potty in there) DAY OR NIGHT! She MUST be let out. She must go potty before crating and if she does not, then take her out again in ten minutes. Until she does. She needs to learn that there will not be a time when she needs to potty in this new crate.

I know this sounds like a lot, but it by letting her lay in urine (and knowing that she is while at work is letting her) you are neglecting her. Laying in filth is neglect pure and simple. I know you love her and are trying to do all you can, but unfortunately you are failing her in this right now. I know you can fix it, and have the dedication to do it (otherwise, why would you be here asking for advise?)

If you absolutely CAN NOT be there to let her out during the day (or have a neighbor or friend do so), then you need to build her a secure kennel with shelter outside so that she can potty as needed while you are not home. You can work on re-training the crate when you are home in the evenings and at night.

By feeding her all her meals in the crate, she will come to associate the crate with food and fun and not filth and loneliness. Give her extra yummy treats and things to chew on like large knuckle bones and stuffed Kongs. Make the crate the ONLY place she gets this stuff, and soon she will be running there at every opportunity! And prior to putting her up for any length of time (two hours for now) make sure she is TIRED first. Play fetch, go for a quick walk, play tug, anything that wears her out so that she will go in the crate and fall asleep. She will still whine a bit at first, but will learn quickly that the crate is for fun and sleep.

ETA: I took to long to post... A lot has already been covered... Sorry all...

GREAT post.

Rachel,

I was thinking some more about your situation with Bella, and logged on again to read Jessica's post which says everything I was going to say.....so I just wanted to repeat that going back to basics to retrain with a new and different crate and letting her out every two hours might seem like an lot of work right now (and it is) - but it will only be for a short time and it will be worth it.

You could try looking for a cheap used airline crate on Craigslist or in your local ads - people sell them all the time (or at least they do round here). Ditto if you are looking for materials to construct a secure outdoor run for Bella.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

GREAT post.

Ditto, Jessica. Thanks for taking the time to write that post...

I use two crates with my puppy,one in my bedroom at night and one in my living area during the day.The puppyis usually quieter and can let you know when it is time to go out. If you do build an outdoor kennel make sure no one can steal your puppy,great idea by the way.Lots of great advice,hope it helps you.

To answer back too EVERYONE - No we do not currently have anyone to take care of the puppy during the day while we are gone. I leave the house at the very last minute I can and return home the second the clock strikes 4pm. I have raised another healthy, happy shepherd, working the same hours I do now, and she did not have these same problems, as neither did the 2 pomerians I have brought up. They loved their crate and had few accidents. Of course I was able to start with them between 7-8 weeks old, which wasnt the case with the new puppy.

As far as the screaming she does, she has done this since the day we brought her home. Even before she had a chance to relieve herself in the crate and "lay in her mess". I have broken her of the habit of pooping in there already (this indeed was my fault b/c I gave her free roam of her crate). She isnt peeing as much anymore, but usually after letting her out, where she did indeed go too the bathroom, and giving her treats and bones in the crate, as we always have, she still would start screaming and pee as soon as we locked the crate. This was the second I shut the door and went too walk away. As I said this has happened from the second we brought her home. Our VET said it would take a couple days to break her of it, it has been a month. At night when we are there to let her out, she does the same thing. We let her out once at night - she usually doesnt go too the bathroom - we have let her out again. Since we have done so in taking her out more at night her screams have got louder and this is where she has started too move her crate across the floor and try to get out.

I have talked to many people, got a lot of advice, and even consulted with the vet. I am highly concerned with the health of my puppy. I wanted to see if anyone else has had this problem. I had my puppy trained in a little over a week on how too sit, shake, come, sit & wait, and to not have accidents in the house. I walk her everyday, sometimes twice. She gets plenty of excercise by running around outdoors and has 3 different kinds of bones, kong, and lots of toys. I have been told b/c of the screaming she does and going to the bathroom constantly in her crate, even when she is let out, that i should keep her in there all the time. Only take her out too let her go too the bathroom to make her grow out of the screaming. To me, that would be neglecting her. Alot of people have puppies/dogs that work full time jobs and dont have these problems. I have 4 co-workers who are raising puppies as me on the same schedule in the same way and are not having these problems.

My main concern is, she is a good dog, and learning fast. I am looking for more advice or maybe experience from someone who is having similar problems or who may have in the past or known someone who has. I was told by a vet she may not be able to be crate trained. For now, we are going to look into the outside materials to make a pen with a cover. This is against my better judgement b/c I think there is more of an issue (b/c of how she does the same thing at night, when she is let out) I am willing to try anything once as long as we can find the materials at a reasonable price. Bella does the same thing with the screaming, if we walk out of a room of leave her outside and go away. So I dont think her laying in her mess is the only thing that is causing the problems. I am not a dog expert but I think there is more of an underlying issue.

Anyone who has had the same problem with a dog acting up when it was alone could probably offer up a little more advice would be greatly appreciated. The potty training is pretty much under control at this point.

It's under control? I have to say that a puppy of this age left for that many hours with no relief from the crate is not under control from where I sit .... after many many dogs and decades.

QUOTE (Jessica): A poster above used an analogy of leaving a baby in the crib all day, and it is a very apt analogy, but I would say that it would be closer if you left no diaper on the baby. Your pup is learning to HATE the crate. To her it means seclusion, laying in waste, crying and, well, nothing good at all. She is too young to be ABLE to hold it, and she is being taught that peeing in the crate is the RIGHT and ONLY thing to do, no matter how miserable it is or wrong it feels. END

This is not helping with the "acting up when alone."


I don't think it's relevant about your co-workers or other people who are giving you bad advice (and is the vet a trainer/behaviorist? The vet is not usually the best source for help with this kind of issue).

I would get the puppy relief for when you are gone and start over with potty training.

I would also consider your daily protocol before you leave in the morning. This is not sufficient for what anyone here would mean by structured exercise with you before being left in the morning: "She gets plenty of excercise by running around outdoors and has 3 different kinds of bones, kong, and lots of toys."


"Anyone who has had the same problem with a dog acting up when it was alone could probably offer up a little more advice would be greatly appreciated."

Not a new problem. Separation anxiety is something that most experienced owners have dealt with. I certainly have.

But that crate is not at this point a cozy happy den.