My little female is also extremely quick and deadly on a recall! What I have done is teach the front sit separately.. I use food for this..I work on the long distance stuff with the ball.. I have someone restrain my dog.. I run away.. stop.. show her the ball..call ..and as she comes zipping in..(before she crashes! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) I throw the ball behind me... and tell her to "get it". Then what I did was at about a 20 ' distance.. called her..showed her the ball..and when she was about 4 feet out from me.. I told her to sit.. this seemed to clear her head enough that she didn't crash.. she slides into a sit... and the ball is dropped.

Jody

Rumor has it that a future front and recall video could be in the works???

 Quote:

Originally posted by Vince P.:
Rumor has it that a future front and recall video could be in the works???

Even better would be a "general obedience" video that covers transition (progression) of all of the basic commands using a ball-string that would complement the ones already out.

We have the "how to start" --Building drive/focus with B. Flinks.

We also have a "how to finish" -- Motivational Retrieves with B. Flinks

What is missing seems to be the middle-- going through heel-sit...to down...to recall... to the send out and other off leash/distance commands.

Ed is taping future projects as we speak.

I agree Dave...only I’d like to see those exercises done in detail with both ball and tug toy.

I also got the Motivational Retrieve video (sheesh...I'm really building up a library!!)
and BTW, like it a LOT better than the content of the Tom Rose Forced Retrieve tape. It looked to me that the retrieve using a ball is not quite the same exercise as teaching the retrieve with a tug. I found the Flinks demo on the "calm" front very worthwhile, especially since it was shown being done with a tug.

I am not a professional trainer and am still searching for an effective way to use a tug instead of a ball to teach some of the exercises. Our male dog is kong nuts: no problem; but my little ddr/czech bitch is...mmm...lets say she would rather fight than switch so two ball becomes one ball (in her mouth) real quick. I have been using the ball-on-string for building ball drive by allowing her to tug a bit before trying to substitute, but it’s been slow going. (Unlike Flinks Itor, this bitch will choose a tug toy over a ball everytime, clearly enjoying a paws-on-chest fight more than a ball chase)

It is apparent to me that for the motivational retrieve, I will be using the tug toy with the bitch, whereas the dog got to his BH by using only a kong. But I too would like to see some video on the in between exercises. Reading books is ok (have done a ton of that too) but watching someone else make the common mistakes and seeing them corrected I would find invaluable for my preferred learning mode....

I also enjoy looking at new and better ways to train Obd, ball-string method seems to be working for me quite well... BTW the tapes are not incomplete, rather great marketing, Ed has us trained quite well, quitting the game while we are still in Prey Drive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ball Reward and Food reward for the Recall:
I have 2 separate problems and perhaps someone can help me. First, let me describe my teaching style.
A) I use the 2 ball retrieve game as a game only, to teach a fast recall. He comes flying into me to get the second ball. I sometimes throw in a sitz command to get a front sit as part of the "here" or the come exercise, but I mostly keep it a game and a retrieve fun game for the dog, very seldom giving a sitz, and mostly a fun retrieve game, to keep the recall very fast.
B) I teach the front sit, done slowly, not from a distance at a dead-run, using food reward spit from the mouth. He gives me good attention to the face. I give a pop on a leash to make him come into me fast.

My problems are as follows:

i) In using the food reward for the slow front sit, he doesn't come close enough for body contact. He is a few inches away from me. If I step back to bring him in closer, he comes closer, but still not the very,very close distance he needs to be for Sch-B. In other words, I have a poor front sit. If I give a pop on the leash, in fact, I'm popping him for coming to me, not for not coming in close enough, in his mind. He is "an active resister" as described in the Tom Rose tape of "Training competition Heeling dog".

ii) How do I combine the fast recall from a distance done with the ball reward described above, with the front sit that I've been teaching with food? In other words, even though I use the same command, "Here", the dog sees the ball reward, retrieve game as a separate thing from the sit-front for the food reward. Any ideas?

Alex,
If you have the flinks tape, drive focus and grip, Benard clearly shows how to begin teaching a good front sit. Two handler, leash in between legs and ball at chest, dog gets ball and stroked on nose while second handler puts tension on leash to keep close then slowley relese. Making dog comfortable while that close to handler. Have a look again at that part.

To answer Dave's orginal question in post 1, again Benard clearly demonstrates how to teach the Platz, rewind and look closley.

All you really need to do it think about how to use the ball on the string for any command and it can be done.

Example: distance recall. First your dog needs to be able to sit and stay while you walk down field. Or have two handlers. I prefer to "make drive then Sit hence building drive and focus for what is coming, just like Benard says "Success comes from focus, not taken". Once you get down field, show ball "builds drive on sight" and command "Here" command "sit" right before he gets to you and presto, fast ass recall, and the dog is drive satified, "He make success" if he has had good basic drive training with the ball on string training... remember, each step is a building block of training, can't just jump ahead, which is learned from Ed's basic Obd tape... put it all togther!

Hi Lonny... when the ball is dropped, the dog is released from a down. I was interested in how Bernard gets the dog into the down position to start with (yes, I know several possible methods... just wondered how HE does it).

You are correct, however, that there is much more in both tapes than meets the eye upon first viewing.

Also, I was under the impression from the first video that throwing the ball would reduce drive... because the dog could drop it and pick it up on his own when at a distance. But in the motivational retrieve video... he uses this method frequently.

There is much to learn about the details of this approach.

Hey Dave,

Your right, there is a lot of data that is not so apperent in the first tape. It took me 2 times before I got it, I'm sure as I watch it again, I will retain even more.

As far as the down he demostrated the drive building then sit holding the ball up in the air, he then explained for the down he quickly thrust the ball in a downward motion while using his body to bend over slightly, but real fast and abrupt, like you do when you try and scare someone by moving your hand real fast to their face, but make no contact. That is what I saw, it's in about the middle of the tape.

I have not seen the retrieve video yet, so I can't comment on that one, gota save up another 116 bucks hahaha. I will be intrested in seeing his approach, as compaired to what I have been doing.

My pup has just started the drive lessons, he is kinda distracted and gets bored after about 2 min with the ball drive building, he will bite for it about 6 times, he is more of a quiter then try harder dog at the moment, but he is just 6 months old.. so I think it will go away. His grip sucks as well on the new method, but great on the rag, puppy sleeve. He is crazy for the retrieve ball (not on string) so that is why I think he will come around. What do you think?