She can heel off-lead, sort of, while looking straight ahead...

I'd start right here - this statement says volumes. You've moved on to heeling, even off leash heeling, without it ever being correct from the beginning. When a dog is able to self-reward by engaging in a behavior that is at least as enjoyable as anything you have to offer, then all the positive reinforcement in the world ain't gonna cure it. I would go back to square one - teach the dog to sit at heel position and give eye contact. And the command is fuss or heel, not watch me or eyes or anything else. It is fuss. If you teach watch me as a command for look at me, then you give a second command for fuss, she is absolutely correct NOT to give eye contact. You have to teach her that heeling INCLUDES looking at you; it's not a separate activity.

Ok, so you get her to sit next to you and you say fuss (and BTW, you don't move, just stand still, no walking). You don't wave the ball around, you don't hold food up to your face. The reward is out of sight, in my pocket. I'll say fuss and quietly repeat it, and have patience. If after a minute I still get totally ignored, I might try adding her name or a soft sound. Don't lean over into her face. When she glances up, instantly release and play. And I would keep her on a leash so she has to play with me, not go find something more interesting. After she REALLY seems to have learned the connection between the command and looking up, only then would I introduce a pop on the pinch for looking away or failure to comply. Since she is so easily distractable and your rewards cannot compete with the environmental stimuli she finds so attractive, you are left with only one alternative - you have to make it uncomfortable for her to engage in her own self-rewarding behaviors. She looks away, I pop and I keep popping (lightly) until she glances back up, then it ceases instantly. Giving a couple pops and then giving up is the worst thing you can do. Once you decide she is ready for this (she understands what you expect), then you have to stay with it. The aversive stimulus stays on until SHE turns it off by looking up (or whatever behavior you are working on). And don't whang her! Most dogs will do anything BUT look directly at you when you really hurt them. They tend to submit, which includes NOT making eye contact. It should be an irritating, uncomfortable stimulus, but not outright painful. This is how I would proceed with her. And I would stay in the stationary heel position, asking for perfect attention under STRONG distractions, before I ever began heeling forward with her. Make it as easy for her to be correct and win as possible, so don't ask her to walk and chew gum at the same time. Just ask for her undivided attention in the stationaary position under distractions. Once that is mastered, walking and looking up will come easily.

As far as correcting her sniffing - I absolutely would pop her if she chooses sniffing over the behavior I've asked for once she truly understands what is expected from her. I absolutely would NOT pop her for sniffing on her own time. If she prefers to sniff while taking a pleasure walk, so be it. Only make sniffing unpleasant when you have asked for a specific bahavior and she chooses to sniff. This won't affect her tracking one bit.

WOW! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You know, I think you just answered a question for me that I haven't even asked yet! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

SchH3FH2--

One word: WOW.

I kinda suspected that I had the cart before the horse with the off-lead heeling thing. Had the idea to do the BH in the fall... I should know that rushing is never a good idea in dog training. Especially not with such a young dog.

The last dog I trained would do absolutely anything for a ball (he's old and crippled now and will STILL do absolutely anything for a ball). Teaching him to focus was easy--I had all the focus I needed right there in my hand. Now I've got a dog that would rather look down than up (because "down" is where the smells are coming from).

I will do as you suggest--this sounds like very sound advice to me. Thanks.

Pete Felknor

Sch3FH2 you never cese to amaze me with your common sense "I shoulda thought of that, but didn't" advise You should be on the payroll my friend!

I absolutely would NOT pop her for sniffing on her own time. If she prefers to sniff while taking a pleasure walk, so be it. Only make sniffing unpleasant when you have asked for a specific bahavior and she chooses to sniff.

This is what Sch3FH2 said. It sounds good to me.

Let me input my 2 cents again. I reread your post and you only have had the dog for 3 months. She didn't really have any foundation training, correct? She is still learning, despite her age and should therefore be started at ground level. If she were started as an 8 week old puppy would you think that 3 months of training produces a finished product?
Heeling is best learned on hard surfaces from what I've experienced and been told. I taught my dog the No sniff command when I started to teach him to walk/heel on lead. When we are just strolling, watching a soccer game, talking to someone (especially on grass) he is allowed to sniff. Pavement was easier to teach. You just keep walking. Grass is different. You have to be more patient as there are lots of smells. Incorporating a fast walk with a couple of quick direction changes and a pop or two should work. I would limit my obedience training in grassy/odiferous areas for now and stick to a quick walk through the grass, maybe a sit. Maybe in a couple of months when she can be more reliable and is more familiar with you and the whole training experience, you can try longer periods on grass.

I may NEED to be on your payroll, cuz I'm gonna get fired doing all this stuff on company time!!

Come on Sch3Fh2. The board is more important than your job. LOL.

7

Sounds like Sch3FH2 has just reached his his peak leval of Avoidence training, get fired for posting on dog board, stop posting, Result? avoid getting fired! A classic example! You even amaze us when your not here!

Not bad Lonny...Not bad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Just done reading this thread. Man you guys are good. This board gets better and better. If you blink you won't get a word in. Great advice everyone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />