As a owner of a dog who suffered from pollen allergies, I definitely agree with Connie. The dog should not be bred.

We got my GSD when she was 2.5 years old, we spent 1.5 years to get her allergies under control (which probably would never have happened had it not been for Connie and this board). We spent thousands of dollars on her (over $2000 just on oral medications, not to mention blood works, cultures, shots, and then eventually, the much needed derm vet visits).

She is my first working dog, and we love love love her temperament and drives, but with all that we had to go through with her, we would never consider breeding her. We were very fortunate, our derm vet only expected 70 to 80% improvement at best, but we got her symptoms 100% controlled (again, thank you Connie!!).

She was fortunate that we had the resources to take care of her, my GP vet flat out told us that a lot of owners would've given her up.

I want to add, and I am trying not to be judgmental or dismissive, that my feeling about a breeder who doesn't know what problems have major heritability factors and hasn't taken the time and effort to learn -- well, I don't think I am going too far when I say that this is not a person who should be breeding (yet).

Allergies are wildly frustrating and costly, besides the misery factor and besides the many secondary problems.

It's not as if we were talking about an obscure condition that one dog in a million will ever suffer.

JMO!

If I were that person, I think I would try to see this as an opportunity and an indication to get some information. I have a long shelf loaded with nothing but books on canine atopy and other allergies. Info is readily available (the list I posted of web comments was gathered in a very few minutes) and much of it is accessible and down to earth.



eta
Just wanted to add that I have one now and have owned in the past four other dogs who were surrendered and were slated for PTS because of the inability of the previous owners to deal with their allergies. (I have no great financial resources, either, but I do have the advantage of some understanding of and experience with atopy and other allergies beyond the "steroids and lamb & rice food" POV.)

I want to be really clear about the possibilities. A runny nose is not what we're talking about.

Melissa understands the huge challenge that allergies can present.

"We got my GSD when she was 2.5 years old, we spent 1.5 years to get her allergies under control ..... . We spent thousands of dollars on her (over $2000 just on oral medications, not to mention blood works, cultures, shots, and then eventually, the much needed derm vet visits)."


To start out with such a big factor knowingly in place in a breeding .....

Breeding is done to improve a breed, right?

Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/26/2011 02:38 PM)
Edit reason: eta

I have one of those dogs that came from a dog with allergies. I did not know that Kasey's mom had allergies until a year after we got him. I specifically asked the breeder if there were any allergies in her lines at all, and was told no. I had already been dealing with a dog that had horrendous allergies, and I wasn't up for another one!

I went to the breeder's home and examined this female myself when she was pregnant, and when Kasey was 4 weeks old. I did not see any signs of allergies at the time. But when Kasey started having problems at 18 months old (surprise he's allergic to 43 different allergens with grass at the top of the list), I called the breeder and found out that this female (who was 2 1/2 at the time), did indeed have some occassional 'hot spots' if she spend too much time on the grass. This breeder, who was recommended to me by the American Golden Retriever Club, did not want to hear about Kasey and his allergies. She wanted to stick her head in the sand and do whatever she wanted to do. This dog was a show dog and had taken first place in several shows, and they wanted to be in denial.

We love Kasey - he is an exceptional dog with the best temperament I've ever had, and we wouldn't think of giving him up. But I do wish I could have known the facts and made up my mind knowing what the odds would be that I'd have an allergy dog. It has cost us a LOT of money in vet bills, and a lot of mental and emotional energy.

If this couple decides to breed this dog, at the very least, I hope they have a full disclosure to the perspective puppy owners.

Thank you to everyone for sharing their personal experiences!

It will help me describe to her what she could be sending to her new puppy owners, and the life she is setting them and the puppies up for.

I do agree Connie, that they should take a step back from breeding until they can learn a bit more about these types of things. I have made it my goal as a dog owner, dog sport competitor and as someone who would like to breed in the future to learn as much as I can about producing the best dogs that I can. I do understand that there are people who take it more lightly, thats just not me.

If this was one of your close friends, who you train dogs with weekly, how would you approach it, with the end goal being you still have a friend?

I have already passed along all the links, I just want her to see that I am trying to help, not judge or point fingers.

Again, some people (most everyone on this board...LOL) are all about the dogs and their well being - but I have to understand that what I might think is a bad idea and not helpful to my beloved breed, someone else might think is ok. So I am trying to remain helpful, and more of a source for info rather than someone imposing her will on another.

 Quote: Niomi Smith

Again, some people (most everyone on this board...LOL) are all about the dogs and their well being - but I have to understand that what I might think is a bad idea and not helpful to my beloved breed, someone else might think is ok. So I am trying to remain helpful, and more of a source for info rather than someone imposing her will on another.

I guess I don't look at it as a personal judgement on whether it's a good or bad idea. If you were breeding a dog that had HD or some other genetic problem, it would be clear that that is bad for the breed and the future puppies and their owners. From all the damage I've seen allergies do, I can't put them on a different level.

It's not you imposing your will, it's you expressing right and wrong.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/26/2011 07:32 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Thanks guys! When I first approached the subject about no longer considering this dog a breeding dog, she did seem a bit defensive and did not consider allergies a big deal. I am hoping that with all the information you guys have given me, I will be able to let her know my opinion in a way that helps her understand the severity of the situation.

She really is dedicated to this breed and maybe just a bit off course at this point!

I will let you guys know when I hear back from her - hopefully I will see her tonight!

Well, you know almost first-hand of the misery atopy and other allergies can cause, just from this board. And this isn't even a board devoted to skin issues! Just the threads I have responded to number in the hundreds here. My responses number in the thousands.

The conversational topic maybe could focus on the frustration, misery, and expense involved with allergic dogs, and how it is now actually a vet specialty, as the incidence has increased exponentially (just as it has in humans).

Yes, the severity and the increased number probably relate to environmental factors, like the explosion in the number of autoimmune diseases .... but the dogs most affected (by far) inherited that predisposition to develop allergies.

When I think of how many future dogs could be affected by keeping the two you mentioned in a breeding program .... it seems that a whole lot of misery could be avoided by removing them.

I was trying to think if I had ever seen a mutt with terrible allergies. Other than flea allergy, I'm not sure I have.

 Quote:

Breeding is done to improve a breed, right?

Nothing else needs to be said.

ETA The above quote is Connie's.