I would ascribe this incident to handler error and work on improving handler skills, rather than punishing the dog. Immediate, meaningful corrections teach the dog. Punishment harms your relationship with your dog. One thing I have learned is that my corrections need to be done in a calm state of mind, rather than being upset. If I am upset, my corrections carry an emotional dynamic and my dog is going to be reacting to my emotions rather than learning from the corrections.

Resource guarding is a very common problem, especially with young dogs who are learning what is appropriate behaviour around high value objects. You can use resource guarding to build your bond with your dog instead of building an association of high value object = potential pain. What we think our dogs should or shouldn't do is not instinctive knowledge that our dogs have.

From what you describe, your dog had an inappropriate reaction to your wife's action. Your wife made an inappropriate action toward your dog when he had a high value object and put herself in harm's way. You both took out your anger and fear about your dog's behaviour, on your dog, with inappropriate punishments (I wouldn't call them corrections because I don't think your dog learned anything about how to handle high value resource objects in an appropriate way).

There are many very good ideas here about how to train a dog, both in pack structure, and OB, but they can only be successful when our expectations of what our dog can understand are fair. I am an inexperienced handler with a highly reactive male teenager who is turning into a marvellous companion. This is because I have followed the advice on these boards and worked to understand my dog, not have unrealistic expectations of what he is going to do in any given situation. In particular, to be much, much better at predicting his reactions and avoiding them altogether.

I would say you have pack structure and OB opportunities arising from this incident, and that the incident was bound to happen because the handlers were not paying attention to signals from their dog. I would say, ultimately, we have a responsibility to set our dogs up for success. And to do that, we can't expect them to be able to read our minds.

Chris, I 100% agree with you. This is one of TWO things I am totally inflexible on: 1. I should be able to take ANYTHING away from my dogs without being challenged on it and 2. They should come when I call them -- immediately and quickly (as age-appropriate LOL. Neither the old dog nor I move as fast as we did when we were 'puppies')

However. I have never had a 'hard' dog as some here have. I have never had to correct any dog more than twice on the issue and have a reoccurance. I understand I might have to change my approach if I had a dog that, upon having that 'come to Jesus meeting' tried to climb up the leash and eat me.

If I have to remove anything from the dogs' mouth/possession I expect to be able to do it without trading, asking the dog to 'drop it', etc. If I have to physically EXTRACT a bone or something yucky from their MOUTH I expect to do it without getting bit. Of course this doesn't happen but maybe 1-2 times a month (& I have 5 dogs) and while the dogs don't have to LIKE it, they have to permit it without protesting.

And once it's done, of course, they get plenty of skritches and 'good boy's/girl's' as a reward.

I think people can say what they expect from their dog till their face turns blue.

The only problem with that thinking is not every dog & every situation is going to fall perfectly.

You can expect to be able to take the bone from your dog, however maybe joe blow down the street can't. Why? Different dog, different circumstances, different obedience and lets face it different training methods.

If the plastic bottles are not something he can play with without it becoming hazardous (the sharp edges, swallowing small pieces) he shouldn't be able to have them. I wouldn't let my dog chew on something unless I knew there was no chance it would become dangerous and have to be taken. If he's seeing those bottles as a high value item, take it away and give him something more appropriate and dog friendly to chew on.

And to point out, its hard to understand how a dog views what a human is doing. It could be that the way she approached, or reached over him or was standing over him that got his defense going. Dogs snap (as in bite) for many different reasons. It could be that if your wife was trying to stand over him and remove the object that bothered him. Im not saying his reaction was acceptable, but i would try to think about all the circumstances leading up to the incident and see if something pops out.

 Quote: Deb Collier

Chris, I 100% agree with you. This is one of TWO things I am totally inflexible on: 1. I should be able to take ANYTHING away from my dogs without being challenged on it and 2. They should come when I call them -- immediately and quickly (as age-appropriate LOL. Neither the old dog nor I move as fast as we did when we were 'puppies')

That is exactly how I feel. If my dog does not like some thing I do the dog can complain by whining or crying (if physical discomfort is involved) but never show it through aggression.

In my mind, this has nothing to do with marker training and every thing to do with pack structure.

And yes, ALWAYS ALWAYS, come when called.

 Quote: Deb Collier

Chris, I 100% agree with you. This is one of TWO things I am totally inflexible on: 1. I should be able to take ANYTHING away from my dogs without being challenged on it and 2. They should come when I call them -- immediately and quickly (as age-appropriate LOL. Neither the old dog nor I move as fast as we did when we were 'puppies')

Thanks Deb. You nailed my sentiments on the head, precisely. If I'm in a situation where I try to take something from him and he wants to hang on, it's because he thinks we're about to play tug. In that situation I feel fine asking him to "out." But the kind of possessiveness he exhibited last night, and-- more importantly-- his reaction, is something that I am going to correct. I am not going to modify my own behavior to work around the dog's possessiveness and snapping.


Incidentally, he is definitely NOT a "hard" dog. He's a big softie. When he's corrected with a shake of the neck or a slap, he knows he's being punished and gets all mopey about it immediately. There is no backlash of any kind, or anything remotely close. Nor am I ever the slightest bit worried about the possibility.
I think this time he just made a mistake, got the correction, and now hopefully will not do it again.


After reading a few of the responses late last night I did let him back out of the crate to lie down by me in the office. Even kissed him goodnight He's a good boy.

p.s. "Come to Jesus meeting" made me lol.

Although this behavior can be worked with through training it sounds like it hadn't been up to that point. I would have acted pretty much the same IF it wasn't something we had worked on. But it should have been.

But I also think it was a mistake to crate the dog as punishment. The crate should be a place of peace and calmness.
I'm a huge believer in marker training but aggression of any sort would be dealt with swiftly in the moment.
There are a few things in life that need a consequence other then a loss of reward.

 Quote: Chris Waple

he is definitely NOT a "hard" dog. He's a big softie. When he's corrected with a shake of the neck or a slap, he knows he's being punished and gets all mopey about it immediately.

You need to keep your hands off of this dog. From your original post it sounded like you would only use your hands to correct your dog in response to aggression, however; it seems like he has been slapped or shaken for other things as well?

Chris, I'm not being judgemental here, I applaud anyone who questions their own methods and works to find ways to better their relationship with their dog. And I think that's why you posted.

A few thoughts: first of all IMO a correction should immediately stop the behavior and the dog should recover quickly and look to you for guidance to what it is you do want. Becoming mopey makes me believe he is being over-corrected.

An evaluation from a professional might be in order to determine if the aggression was triggered by resource guarding or fear of being hit.

Does he know the word "No" ? It is such an underrated command. It is quick, easy and always available to you and if taught with consistancy like any other command a highly effective training tool.

As for pack structure; you need your dog's respect and that needs to be earned; no amount of escalating corrections will ever make you his leader. Work towards being consistant,predictable, and fair. For instance if he will "out" the plastic bottle. Then he should be given that command each and everytime it is being taken away, so that he understands what to expect. And that means your wife needs to be on the same page as you. Also, always reward for compliance after a correction; that can be as simple as a good boy. Just make sure he is recognized for getting things right.

I'm saddened to see that so many people agree with beating dogs over dogs acting like dogs. They're incapable of rational thought process, and only know what we show them is appropriate. Apparently hitting the dog is appropriate, but he's not allowed to 'hit' you back.

If this were my situation I would slap the wife for hitting the dog, and then immediately step up the obedience and NILIF. Resource guarding is a NATURAL, NORMAL behavior, and even us homo sapiens have it.

My response isn't always popular, but then again I don't have to resort to beating on animals to teach them a lesson.

 Quote: SamanthaTopper

I'm saddened to see that so many people agree with beating dogs over dogs acting like dogs. They're incapable of rational thought process, and only know what we show them is appropriate. Apparently hitting the dog is appropriate, but he's not allowed to 'hit' you back.

If this were my situation I would slap the wife for hitting the dog, and then immediately step up the obedience and NILIF. Resource guarding is a NATURAL, NORMAL behavior, and even us homo sapiens have it.

My response isn't always popular, but then again I don't have to resort to beating on animals to teach them a lesson.

Agreed. Working through a desensitization program isn't "negotiating" with the dog, it's being smarter than the dog and conditioning the desired response. Sure it takes more time and effort, but I prefer happy working dogs that want to listen, not dogs that listen because they're scared not to.