Thank-you so much everyone!

I may have misunderstood the marker concept. The marker I use is saying "Ja" (yes) in a moderated tone. I thought that the word or sound was the marker, not the treat. I also read in there somewhere that it is best if treats are intermittent, so that the pup does become fixated on the treat but on the marker sound.

I give this positive sound for everything that she does that I want to reinforce, when she is behaving in the way I want her too. It was my understanding that this is how to shape the behaviour.

My very first post was about active v/s down time, as there was no way I could do non-stop shaping of behaviour by giving a treat every time.

Now I tend to use the marker "Ja" together with a treat when I am having a 'session' with her, and just the marker "Ja" all the rest of the time.

It was just my way to resolve the active training v/s all other times issue.

I do crate her, 2 naps during the day after meals, and at night. The rest of the time she is free in my work part of the house. I'm at the desk and she is romping around with a changing selection of toys etc, or else time in the yard, with or without a long lead/tether.

We also go for 2 walks in the outer yard about 1.5 acres both on and off lead, depending what she's like. Sometimes I just need to let her run to burn off some energy.

I have one disadvantage as the owner of a GSD pup, I have had both hips totally replaced and so can not run myself, a semi brisk walk is all I can manage. But I try to compensate by having games where I have a long pole with something tied on the end, so it gives me a great long reach and we can play 'chasey' like this and she gets a great workout that way. I don't overwork her though, she never goes more than a few minutes at this before conking out and loosing interest.

She also has 2 different kinds of balls that she loves to fetch and most times she brings them back to me, or else when tired she lays down and gives them a good chew.

I've read all the articles here at Leerburg, and I love the ethos of the training. I'm about to get two of the DVD's to watch online as I'm in a diff DVD zone (zone 4) and our Australian dvd players don't play the USA dvds. It's a bit problematic for me as I'm in a rural area, and have Satellite Internet service that is not great for streaming (a bit slow). I've updated it last week to their top service and we'll see how it goes > am crossing my fingers

Re: How I loaded the marker.

For the first few days, my aim was to get her to check with me (look at my eyes) as she was only focus at her eye level. This was the initial component that I identified. Then for the first 2 days I had many short sessions where everytime she looked in my eyes I'd say the word "Ja" in a moderated tone, wait a second and then give her the treat.

I did this until she was responding pretty consistently in a number of environments. Inside, outside, in different spaces and times. Not working when she's distracted but she's only little.

From there I have used the word Ja everytime I approve of what she does. It seems it registers with her. I only use treats together with Ja when doing an active session.

I need a treat pouch, as part of the equipment, that and a
long tether. I'm going shopping tomorrow :-)

"Thank-you so much everyone!

I may have misunderstood the marker concept. The marker I use is saying "Ja" (yes) in a moderated tone. I thought that the word or sound was the marker, not the treat. I also read in there somewhere that it is best if treats are intermittent, so that the pup does become fixated on the treat but on the marker sound. .... I give this positive sound for everything that she does that I want to reinforce, when she is behaving in the way I want her too. It was my understanding that this is how to shape the behaviour. .... My very first post was about active v/s down time, as there was no way I could do non-stop shaping of behaviour by giving a treat every time."

The word or click IS the marker.

Phasing to less-than-100% reward is later. Intermittent is later still.



Have you seen any marker online action, even short clips?

I think it's GREAT that you will be able to watch them "on demand."

QUOTE:
"How I loaded the marker.

For the first few days, my aim was to get her to check with me (look at my eyes) as she was only focus at her eye level. This was the initial component that I identified. Then for the first 2 days I had many short sessions where everytime she looked in my eyes I'd say the word "Ja" in a moderated tone, wait a second and then give her the treat.

I did this until she was responding pretty consistently in a number of environments. Inside, outside, in different spaces and times. Not working when she's distracted but she's only little.

From there I have used the word Ja everytime I approve of what she does. It seems it registers with her. I only use treats together with Ja when doing an active session.

I need a treat pouch, as part of the equipment, that and a
long tether. I'm going shopping tomorrow :-) " END

Loading the marker involves no action required from the dog at all. You're getting way ahead of yourself.


Is there any chance of linking us to a video clip of a short session?


If you start with Power of Markers (#219), you will see better how the marker relates to the reward. At this point, the beginning, the point is to give value to the marker by demonstrating that the marker means a reward is on the way. That's all. Just "marker=good stuff." I'm reading a slightly unclear sequence. A clip of anything, even loading the marker, would help me/us.

"My very first post was about active v/s down time, as there was no way I could do non-stop shaping of behaviour by giving a treat every time."

I didn't see it. But I would save my marker for marker sessions rather than give empty markers at this stage. JMO!

Ditto with Connie! It sound to me like your way ahead of yourself on shaping behaviors. Concentrate on loading the marker and, at this point in the game you do need to reward every time you mark.
If that isn't possible then don't worry abut trying to shape any other behavior.

The tethering is the right way to go with ANY new dog or pup in the house.

Don't try so hard to "train" the pup and let it be a puppy..under control of course but you don't "need" to "Ja" every behavior your happy with. For that you could simply say "good dog". That doesn't need any marker or reward. It just validates to the pup that your happy with it.
The markers can be worked on just a few at a time during tv commercials. It doesn't have to be a marathon training session or a "non-stop shaping of behaviors".
Have fun and enjoy the pup.

Thanks so much Connie. You are a Godsend. I didn't realise how much I was fretting that I'm not doing the right things.

What you say makes a lot of sense. I am not familiar with the terminology as yet, but I see that my issue was 'loaded marker training v/s the rest of the time'. I have been giving empty markers all the time, (we spend all non-crate time - (12 hours a day) together).

There is a lot of information on how to handle the 'formal' training time, but nothing on all the rest of the time, which does make up the majority of interactions. I work hard to set up environments in which she can succeed so that I don't have to scold her, but inevitably undesirable behaviour occurs.

My approach has been to let her know if I approve of something by my voice and the marker word. To ignore and distract from unwanted behaviour and only to correct when something is a definite No. Corrections, for example for jumping onto couch, are an "Off" command, second time in gruffer voice, then a push with off command, then once she's off, distracting her to something else.

All definite No items are dealt with in a similar manner including biting, though there the first step is distraction with something she's allowed to bite and chew, and only if that doesn't work to get more gruff with my commands, down to removing her for a quick time out. Time out is only required about 1:10 times so is pretty good at this stage (I think).

The only other alternative I can see is to have her crated all the time, but I'm not that comfortable with that idea. Is it wrong to give her so much free time? She has 2 naps in the crate during the day, and spends the night in her crate.

Unfortunately I don't have the capacity to take a video.

I'll implement your suggestions and check out the videos, and let you know how I get on.

Bob said: " Concentrate on loading the marker and, at this point in the game you do need to reward every time you mark. If that isn't possible then don't worry abut trying to shape any other behavior. "

I knew he would be succinct.

"Don't try so hard to "train" the pup and let it be a puppy..under control of course but you don't "need" to "Ja" every behavior your happy with. For that you could simply say "good dog". That doesn't need any marker or reward. It just validates to the pup that your happy with it. "

There is a lot of information on how to handle the 'formal' training time, but nothing on all the rest of the time, which does make up the majority of interactions. I work hard to set up environments in which she can succeed so that I don't have to scold her, but inevitably undesirable behaviour occurs.

Not so much. Manage the environment, as you say, and tether the puppy, and re-direct.

My approach has been to let her know if I approve of something by my voice and the marker word. ....

I urge that you don't use the marker this way. You are diluting it.


The only other alternative I can see is to have her crated all the time, but I'm not that comfortable with that idea. Is it wrong to give her so much free time? She has 2 naps in the crate during the day, and spends the night in her crate.

Tether tether tether! Or have an ex-pen right beside you.

Unfortunately I don't have the capacity to take a video.

I'll implement your suggestions and check out the videos, and let you know how I get on.

Excellent!

Keep posting. We are getting closer to good communications. I think you're stressing about "training" this baby too much. Manage her environment. Play with her!

Thanks Bob

I think you're right. I've been getting ahead of myself and tying myself up in knots about what is the "right" way to interact. I just don't want to stuff her up and have to deal with sorting out problems later.

We do have fun, I've just got to lighten up a bit!!!

Thanks, sometimes a little kick up the bum and being told to get real is the best advice. I'm on my own here, so no-one to bounce things around with so I really appreciate your assistance and patience :-)

BTW. Just had to kill a big Tiger Snake (4x more lethal than cobras) that was in the house yard.. Venomous snakes and puppies don't mix! Puppy and snake pics below.


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