"OP" is original poster - who ever began the thread.

Kudos to you for being so open to suggestions, AND for implementing them and seeing immediate results. THIS alone bodes well for you helping this dog become more secure.

Alot of good advise here. I owned a fearful dog at one time and learned very quickly that trying to calm down a fearful dog is a no-no because it's taken as reinforcing the behavior. Fearful behavior needs to be corrected not coddled.

Well I feel really good about the advice i'v received, I do believe she is source guarding and that I am the source. I have spent the evening reading about it and have some good thoughts on what to do. For me, understanding is just the first step in correcting. I am really grateful to you all for your insight, I swear my head was about to spin. It was killing me to think she didn't have a future here with me, I had put so much time and effort into her and it is so rewarding to see change...and I'm awful attached to the crazy little witch. One last thing to share, I tried an experiment earlier. I went outside without letting anyone go with me. When I came in, I greeted all the dogs at the same time but it was Zada's name that I said with the greeting. She immediately started jaw popping ( I had never heard her do that before) and rubbing on me almost like a cat! She did growl at the other dogs, but it was a MUCH SOFTER growl and about half hearted since her focus was on to me. Maybe I'm on to something.

 Quote: Ben McDonald

I owned a fearful dog at one time and learned very quickly that trying to calm down a fearful dog is a no-no because it's taken as reinforcing the behavior. Fearful behavior needs to be corrected not coddled.

If you mean this as a blanket statement, "Fearful behavior needs to be corrected...," then I have to strongly disagree. No, I do not believe fear should be coddled, either, and aggression of any kind needs to be corrected appropriately.

However, I too own a fearful dog, not aggressive in any way, but fearful of things like loud noises and unusual objects (such as the agility tunnel). Giving her a correction for being fearful in these situations would be extremely counterproductive and inappropriate. I use desensitization and counter-conditioning techniques in these types of situations, and have had great success.

Sorry if I have veered a little off topic here. Back to the OP, I tend to agree with several posters that this sounds like a resource-guarding situation.

See post below -

Mike, please use parentheses instead of brackets- brackets contain commands and the systems was confused

--Kelly

It appears there are still a number of glitches in the board. I would like to have read Mike's post, above, but on two different computers, using two different browsers, it is completely blank. Anyone else able to see it, or is it just me?

If I go to "Active Topics" and roll my cursor over it, I can read the first few lines of it, as it was the last post in the thread, but coming here to the thread, I cannot see any of it. Of course, right now, mine is the last post, so that should be the one that shows up when you roll the cursor over it.

Now for some really silly advice... In my experience, dogs have to be trained as a pack or group or bunch. If one dog needs more conditioning than the others, it has been my experience that working with that dog when all the others are worked can have the effect of the other dogs good responses helping to condition or reinforce commands to the dog needing a bit more attention.

That is not to say that working one on one is not a valuable tool but only to note that pack behavior may be reinforced by working in a pack setting where you are the obvious leader of all equally, and correct or reward all or individual at your pleasure (as leader).

Reinforce good behavior. Use body language to reinforce good and bad behavior. Correction comes in any number of applications from brutal to subtle. I like subtle. "Don't like that" (read my body language that reinforces a command "NO" or "ENOUGH"). "Do like this" (read my body language that reinforces "GOOD GIRL/BOY!" or "YESSS!").

I've fostered a few dogs, adopted a few, and my limited experience is that no dog can be singled out for special attention over time (even in the name of training) without a down side, that includes the dog presuming a different level in the pack (up or down). Inadvertently, training can signal ranking (my unscientific thought) when more focused to one dog. What do I know?

When two or more of my four act up, in any context, I do not correct one dog initially. Rather, to stop the behavior and to cue all the dogs that I don't like it, I command "NO' or "ENOUGH" and insert my presence into the mix. I must act a lot because some times I want to laugh but I try to look like 'The Hulk.'

All that rot to say, treat all dogs as if they are equal (because they have to be if you ever want tranquility - more or less). Correct a pack behavior (one dog on another) as pack behavior. One dog(s) must be protected and the other(s) corrected simultaneously by your command and presence. The rules include you protecting a dog from unwanted behavior and recognizing the unwanted behavior and dealing with it so that all the dogs get it.

I some times use a time-out when a dog is out of line. I just 'down' it on a mat and there he/she stays until I stop acting 'The Hulk.' Surprising how the other dogs usually 'down' too. Usually, because dogs live in the moment - I think - in a little while, and when released, they get on about their roles of family members.

Simplistic, eh? I told you it was silly.


Edited by Kelly (02/07/2012 10:10 AM)
Edit reason: changed brackets to parentheses

I can't see it either...

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

No, I do not believe fear should be coddled, either, and aggression of any kind needs to be corrected appropriately.

However, I too own a fearful dog, not aggressive in any way, but fearful of things like loud noises and unusual objects (such as the agility tunnel). Giving her a correction for being fearful in these situations would be extremely counterproductive and inappropriate. I use desensitization and counter-conditioning techniques in these types of situations, and have had great success.

Ditto here. My Leo is shy and a fearful in new situations. Ignorning her fear is my technique. I don't even acknowledge that there's anything to be fearful of. I don't try to soothe her or calm her down (which I think is someting only she can do herself)--but I'd never correct her for being fearful either. "Fear" isn't a behavior that she has a choice in. It would be like correcting her for vomiting.

But I don't think fear is the primary issue going on with the OP's dog. Could be, but I think it's mostly resource guarding (which I suppose has a component of fear--"I'm fearful that you are going to try and take this high-value thing, so I'm going to lash out at you to prevent you from taking it.")

But resource guarding (to me) is better thought of as a behavior CHOICE that the dog is making because they haven't been made to understand the rules of the household in which they live.

There are lots of perfectly "natural" things dogs do because they are dogs. Resource guarding is probably one of those things. But so is peeing and pooping anywhere you feel the urge. Or chewing on anything you find lying around that looks interesting. Or picking fights within a pack to play out dominant-submissive roles. All perfectly "natural" dog behaviors.

But I also believe (based on my own experience) that dogs are very willing to forego these "natural" behaviors in exchange for the comforts of living in my house. But they have to CLEARLY understand the house rules. Rules have to be simple (a short list is better than a long one), black-and-white, no exceptions, applied fairly, and have consequences. Any perceived crack in the rules, and the "natural" behaviors take over.

It's an analogy I've used before, but it works for me: owning a pack of house dogs (especially young dogs) is a lot like being a kindergarden teacher. It's equal parts kindness and strictness. Every day is a repeat of basic lessons: wait your turn, play nicely with others, everyone gets an equal share, we don't do that inside. All delivered with genuine interest in the success of each dog, and praising every little success.

Questions for the OP: What is the mealtime routine for the dogs at your house?

Also--have you heard of a training philosophy/technique called "Nothing In Life is Free" (NILIF)? If not, search for it here, or google it. In short, it's a very good "boot camp" for a dog to get them to quickly understand who's in charge, and, more importantly, that they (the dog) are in control of whether or not they get the good things in life. During this boot camp, they get nothing without earning it. This, combined with that indoor tethering could make a big difference for your problem dog.

Kelly. I shall avoid brackets in the future.

Thank you,

Mike