Lou,

I've read your posts on other lists for years and usually respect your opinions. Moreover, from past exchanges I believe that we use the e-collar in a very similar fashion. I also usually turn down the volume to achieve results, incorporating "negative reinforcement" rather than "positive punishment" into the method; however, I have seen some Mollossers (pitbulls, American Bulldogs, etc) and some KNPV Mal crosses that this technique only works in part. I have found that in these type dogs, if you turn down the volume and get the dogs to become very consistent in outing off equipment (sleeve or suit), you still often need a pretty good stimulation to get them to out off the man. What I'm talking about is different than "blasting the dog off the decoy;" it just takes a bit more stimulation than what I've seen the Dogtra to have.

It could be that you're just a helluva lot better than I with the e-collar. Nevertheless, so far my way has worked on the toughest dogs that I've encountered.

***** Ken, no way in hell am I going to say that I'm a helluva lot better with the Ecollar than anyone. But I've stolen lots of what I know and do from some of the best in the world.

You wrote: I have found that in these type dogs, if you turn down the volume and get the dogs to become very consistent in outing off equipment (sleeve or suit), you still often need a pretty good stimulation to get them to out off the man.

***** I've seen this happen as well and so what I do is to put several decoys on the field so the dog's brain stays engaged all the time. Just doing this will help habituate the dog to outing and will then transfer to a single decoy. There are some additional tricks to this that I do at my seminars that really make it easy to get a reliable out and call off with no measurable impact on the rest of the dog’s work. (I’m in the process of posting the seminar schedule at Ed’s calendar in the next few days).

You wrote: What I'm talking about is different than "blasting the dog off the decoy;" it just takes a bit more stimulation than what I've seen the Dogtra to have.

***** I rarely go above a three on the TriTronics unit in getting the most stubborn dog to out or call off. At a seminar I did back east a while ago they had a dog that hadn’t outed off a bite (real or training) in THREE years. He had been choked unconscious to get him to release. I had him outing cleanly in about 35–45 minutes. He only took a three.

Regards

Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
(Uncllou@aol.com)

Lou,

Thanks for the tips!

k

Hi Lou,

I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your posts, here and elsewhere, always so informative. Im learning alot.

Thanks,
Nori

Hi,

Ed, I read in at least a couple of your answers to questions that you use an e-collar on your dogs often. Yet it seems you recommend a prong collar to people in most of your answers. Is this because you hesitate to recommend an e-collar to those who may not take the time to learn how to use it?

Sharon G

Hello, Lou and Sharron. I look forward to reading your posts. Anybody interested in using e-collars should look around at who is using them succesfully. Then you will get a good comparison and go with what you think will work best for you. We like Tri-Tronics collars the best, but again it is a personal preference. Rich

Hi Rich,

Thanks for your encouragement. I sometimes get over exuberant in sharing my enthusiasm for the Tritronics E collar. It's just been such a tremendous help to me. But everyone does have to decide for themselves. Hope we can all be of some help.

I've been a fan of TriTronics for about 17 years now and I'm a dealer.

Dogtra has just sent me an 1200 NCP model to test. I'll be letting you know how it goes over the next few weeks.

Originally posted by Michael:
I bring this up because I have never used E-Collars on a dog. I am considering using the E-Collar on my new pup, but not sure if it is the right thing to do or not. There are a lot of pros and cons out there. Some say they only use the e-collar on very hard dogs, others say they use it in all aspects of there training, while others say that they would never use an electronic collar.