Trainer 1- keep separate, possibly out of house

Trainer2- I feel was not qualified

Trainer3- suggested re-homing the rott

I have been asking for help, but getting critiqued.

I do not want to, or ever thought I would re home an animal.


With out anything else being brought into the equation…..


Am I able to get advice here on re homing?

 Quote: Dave Owen

Trainer 1- keep separate, possibly out of house

Trainer2- I feel was not qualified

Trainer3- suggested re-homing the rott

I have been asking for help, but getting critiqued.

I do not want to, or ever thought I would re home an animal.


With out anything else being brought into the equation…..


Am I able to get advice here on re homing?

These people have come and observed? They have watched your methods (what you referred to as "desensitizing") in person, in your home?



And Dave, I have to say that when someone asks the wrong question, and experienced (in many cases, loooong-experienced) people can see that exacerbating attempts to fix a situation have been made, and, in addition, that plans are underway to add to the problem ---- then simply answering the wrong question is highly irresponsible.

It is very unfortunate that my lack of dexterity in my hands from two decades of working very hard leaves me in a position where I am unable to convey my thoughts to paper with out spending a lot of time.

I remember a mal owner who went the re homing method, actually it was the intervention of members of this board that made it a re homing, not a pound surrender.

despite this....

 Quote:

Ignoring corrections could get very dangerous with a Rott. The OP seems to have a very nice drivey pup. He has already received his share of not-so-good/will-bite-you-on-the-ass advice in other threads.

Let's not put him another 6 months behind in his training?

I have been asking for help

I said desensitising in reference not to what I'm doing in the house, but everywhere else.

I admit I now know I should not have goten a Rottweiler, especially a working line rott.
NILIF is not me.

Now, my mastiffs, this was said very well and I will repeat

 Quote:

You do not know my dogs, or how I live with them. Until you are here, and living in my shoes, don't you EVER criticize how I handle or care for my dogs. I have NEVER criticized your training or handling methods publically,......, and I expect the same respect.

It is best that I excuse myself from actively participating on this forum. It has become apparent I will not receive help with this issue.

"NILIF is not me"? I don't understand this.


I asked a question about the advisors you consulted, Dave. I asked if they had actually observed (as opposed to a phone call). I admit to being flummoxed that you think this question is so out of line.

"... lack of dexterity in my hands from two decades of working very hard leaves me in a position where I am unable to convey my thoughts to paper with out spending a lot of time." I want to add that I am just one of probably many here who voluntarily respond here, over and over, despite severe hand arthritis. Brevity of response is not the main issue, IMO.

"It has become apparent I will not receive help with this issue." I certainly don't mean to imply that you "will not receive help." But you may indeed not receive the answers you want.... just the ones the responder believes are the right ones.

And I hope you continue to ask. You need the help. I will excuse MYself from your thread, since it's my answers that are such a problem.

So I will stop responding. Perhaps this will work out better for you.

If I understand the OP correctly, this is the situation: He has a 14 mo. Rotty that is reactive and giving him problems. He has two other mastiff females that are doing fine, except for their interactions with the Rotty. He does not know how to fix the situation with the Rotty, he is asking for help with that. He does not belief that NILIF would help his situation with all his dogs. He is planning on breeding mastiffs.

He has problems with his hands, perhaps arthritis.

I can see this OP might catch a lot of heat on this site:

1. He can't manage the dogs he has but he wants to add breeding to the mix;
2. He doesn't understand basic dog management handling, nor training, to establish a healthy safe situation for the dogs he has;
3. He may not have the hand strength or dexterity to practice the necessary handling and training to keep all his dogs healthy and safe;
4. He refers to the possibility of setting up a dog breeding business as a second income generator, which raises all kinds of red flags about BYB;
5. He does not have a professional trainer/behaviourist to help him resolve his existing problems, much less the additional problems when breeding is added in;
6. He saw what happened when Nick Logan decided to re-home Gambit and thinks that was somehow condoned on this site, and maybe that is what he should do with Pisa, instead of repairing the situation he has already created that is causing him problems.

If I was you, Dave Owen, I would shelve your plans to become a mastiff breeder. You really haven't shown you know enough about dogs and you are likely to cause countless misery for untold numbers of dogs by your breeding activity. Make a commitment to the dogs you have and figure out how to address Pisa's needs in a sustainable, healthy way. Get the training you need to be able to handle all your dogs in a way that keeps them all safe and healthy. Apologize to Connie and get her back on your team. You are going to need her wisdom and knowledge.

My .02 cents. I am not an experienced handler, nor professional in the dog world. Everything I have learned has been through books, dvds, professional consultations, haunting this forum, and hard fought experience with my particular pups.

 Quote:

This forum has helped me to realize some of my opinions were well constructed delusions,

I really seem to be putting my foot in my mouth lots, but if that is my cost to learn, more importantly to adjust my thinking I will continue until I am asked not to.

Dave Owen. 1/23/2012

Hey Jenny, any chance the Rott may not really be the problem?

I get the feeling the breeding operation is a done deal. The web site is up announcing a planned litter, he's already bought two new pups for this breeding program. I don't think telling him to put the brakes on it at this point is going to happen.

So dealing with reality:

Instead of storming off in a huff, I'd advise you to stick around here. As a brand new breeder, you need all the free advice and expertise you can get. There are many long-time successful breeders that you can learn from--not to mention great advice from vets, trainers, and canine health/nutrition experts. Where else are you going to get all that for free?

It comes through loud and clear that the Rottie just doesn't fit in your house--or in your vision for a Mastiff kennel. So you have a few choices:

1. Re-home the dog. It won't earn you any brownie points as a dog owner, but I'm more interested in knowing that Pisa has a home where she can live the rest of her life where she is wanted and live to her full potential, whatever that is for her. As your breeding operation kicks in and you have a litter of puppies on the ground will you have MORE time to spend with her, or less? When you've got a houseful of puppies, will she be more difficult or less?

2. Quarantine her from the rest of your other dogs and manage that for the rest of her life.

3. Fix the situation by doing something DIFFERENT than what you're currently doing in terms of training/leadership/pack structure. Because clearly what you're doing now is not working, by your own admission.

I think people here would be willing to help you with any one of those three decisions. But it might mean you have to hear some things you wish you didn't have to hear. But as the owner of a brand new breeding kennel, I imagine you'll get used to that.

Here we go AGAIN!!!


BTW.. Dave....I have bad arthritis in my hands, too.

NILIF is one of the best ways to live with most dogs & especially with 'problem' dogs or pushy dogs. Also putting you dog back in 'boot camp' for a few weeks can help. But you have to be a good 'leader' to impliment any of these. And you have to be willing to be consistant with anything & everything that you do.

Dave, whether you want to call it NILIF or not, you better learn the concept if you want to run a kennel of dogs. It is simply not possible to live successfully with a pack of dogs and not teach them self-control, which is exactly what NILIF does.

I can't *make* my dogs sit, wait, stay in the yard, be calm, not eat my shoes, not fight with pack members, etc. Nobody can. The dog has to do those things on their own, by making a conscious decision to do it, because they believe that it's in their best interest to do it. They have to WANT to do these things.

All I can do is teach them that THEIR OWN SELF-CONTROL is the magic that runs the universe.

In my world, NILIF isn't about punishing, denying or coercing a dog into submission. It's about helping making the connection for the dog that THEY have an active role in how this works. It's not just me bestowing random rewards or random punishment. I can't think of any situation that is fairer or clearer for a dog.

My dogs are the most spoiled dogs in America. They want for nothing, and I deny them almost nothing. But I require them to "earn" it by behaving and following a reasonable list of house rules, #1 of which is "keep your teeth to yourself."

Remember, the other side of the coin of "Nothing in Life is Free" is "Everything Can be Yours if you Know How to Get It."

I am going to get lots of answers I do not want, ok I will deal with those calmly,

 Quote: Jenny Arntzen

4. He refers to the possibility of setting up a dog breeding business as a second income generator, which raises all kinds of red flags about BYB;
5.

first off, no, wrong assumption, wow, no, I will be losing money to have this litter.

Selling tree's, selling raw dog food, and a few other things, selling dogs, no,

no, never do I plan on making money off dogs, maybe eventually giving rides at rodeos, for sure not off breeding.

If thats the opinion of me I'm speachless......



as for pisa, yes it is aparent I need help.

99% of the time we have harmony, that 1% really has me bothered and I over react when posting. But yes there is an issue


So, if I can get help, I will be gratefull.

The nilif thing I said, once again I said wrong.

I will reply to all this,

Connie, I really messed up what I said....

As for rehoming Pisa, , thats the last thing I want to do.

I need a bit of time to reply to all this,