Yes, Robert, I _do_ want my dog to know I'm going to nail him. Of course I grab an ear or the scruff of his neck for an immediate correction, and sometimes that's enough. Other times, when he's being really bloody-minded, the next level is the prong collar. It works really well: after a couple of minutes on it, he generally stays focused for the rest of the session. Of course, it may not work with any other given dog, but it's perhaps worth a try, which is why I offered it. That's what this board is all about, right?

BTW, this isn't something I came up with--it's the way my trainer David Deleissegues taught me, a man with 25 years experience training Schutzhund dogs, including his own Rottweiler, Hark vom Hause Anin, who won the NA Championship some years back.

One last thing: I'd be careful tossing around terms like "bunk." There are indeed people on this board whose experience gives them the right to label someone else's training method in those terms. As far as I can tell, you're not one of them, and neither am I, which is why I never do so. Civility goes a long way if you want people to listen to you--honey and vinegar, as they say.

Dave check your I M
Ron

I've worked with my GSD to teach that he cannot go outside without his e-collar on. Going out is fun so he will retreive it for me when I ask him if he wants to go out. Its on during training, its on during play, its on during car rides, its on all the time during the day.

Dave

I agree with Dindy, Dave and a lot of people here. Dog training a lot of the time is common sence and if you use common sence you cant go wrong. I use a prong coller on my GSD bitch, she wears it all of the time. We go tracking, plaing ball, walking, all the activities you can think of she wares her prong coller. When I need to corect her the coller is alresdy there you dont have to put it on and make a big fas about it.

If any one has problems with their dog (puting on a coller) please read some of the responces here. Take special care reading the responces from the people that teach their dog to asociate the coller with fun.
My dog goes absolutly crasy when she seas the lead, she knows it means we are going to the oval to throw ball and some other exiting toys,
I dont see a problem for some one to do this with a coller. Every time you put it on trow a ball be exiting and happy let your dog have fun, go for a walk take a toy with you. Do a two minute obediance, get the responce you want even with a corection (THROUGH THE BALL) as a reward. People that have problems with equipment have made the mistake of allowing their dogs to asociate the equipment with corection only and not the fun play time.

Cinty,
I'm sorry for misrepresenting myself above. I was speaking of dogs in general. My dogs, meaning dogs I train, don't care what I put around their neck. They have never had any bad experience with any kind of collar.

If you use it properly you're dog should never know a stimulation is anything to do with the collar.

All manufacturers give as standard manufacturers guidelines to replace you normal collar with a deactivated E for at least a week before it first use.

Then you carry the transmitter around with you when with the dog and leave it around the floor or in view during the pre use period. Also during this period fondle him with it in your hand, play with the dog with itin your hand and generally make it a normal but neutral part of his life.

THEN when you start to use you use a command within a second or so before a stimulation, this command and the combined stimulus should stimulate the rank drive (on commands he is used to breaking ) he associates it with the command and you NOT with the collar, the collar should have no association whatsoever with the stimulus, in the dogs ‘mind’.

This phenomena is called making the dog “collarwise” and can happen with any training tool if its used improperly. People often attribute a dog becoming "collarwise" to the Ecollar more than other tools. But it's not inherent in the tool; it's something that the trainer inadvertently teaches. Usually the problem is because trainer puts the collar on, goes training and then takes it off as soon as training is done. Or during training a problem arises and is getting worse. The trainer brings out the Ecollar, “cures” the problem and takes it off. The dog quickly learns that he has to behave only when the Ecollar is on. You can get a "collarwise" dog by doing this with any training tool or even something as benign as a bandanna.

I recommend that if you're going to be home that you put the Ecollar on the dog when you get up and take it off when you go to bed. Move it around every 3-4 hours to avoid causing a friction sore. If you're not going to be home put it on when you do come home and then take if off when you go to bed.

There will always be a need for management. I don't care how well the dog is trained or what tool you used to achieve that training, at some point the dog will wanna do what he wants to do rather than what you want. If you don't have some method of reinforcing your command you'll need to backtrack quite a bit to get the reliability that you desire.