I believe ecocollars should be only used as your last choice, if you tried all other techniques out there and still no results.

Hello?? Some real intelligent members are way out there on this one. I challenge anyone to view one of Ed and Kevin’s building search or off leash handling videos and tell me electric collars are not good training tools.

Vince,

I don't think the argument being put forward is that e-collars aren't effective tools, I think the argument is that used improperly they can cause more harm than good. That would be true of almost any training tool. The decision to use one needs to be based on several things. One is the knowledge and experience of the trainer, one is the temperament of the dog (often this determines how the collar shoud be used), and the commitment of the handler in it's use. Any of these factors may make the use of an e-collar either proper or a disaster waiting to happen.

I am certainly no expert with E collars. I have used it on several of my dogs in the past for specific exercises that were impossible to reinforce at a distance. I agree with Vince that is a very valuable tool IF used properly. Too many people use it incorrectly or too much or at the wrong level.

I don't think it's a 'last resort' by any means but in my observations over the last 15 years or so people slap an ecollar on their dog to try to rush the training. Hence, confused dog......When I started in Schutzhund back in the mid-eighties (I was only a baby then!) I very rarely saw e-collars at training. Now EVERYONE has one!!

I also wanted to add that many excellent dog trainers aren't necessarily great with e-collars. Make sure the person that you train with understands the collar, your dog and uses this tool properly. I have seen first hand some very excellent dogs set back in their training by incorrect ecollar use. Do your homework!

No offense Cindy, but I would catagorize you as a pro. Someone with experience and good dog sense, and the right coaching as to the proper use of the E-Collar. Sorry. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Vince, I quess that I am the intelligent member that is way out there on this one? OK, I'll take that as a compliment. I didn't say that they are not effective training tools, I didn't even say that they are bad training tools. Just ones for the advanced trainer. Thats all I was sayin' big dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Do you use the e-collar?

I 100% stick to my earlier post. Don't -F- with them unless you really, not just kinda, know what you are doing. I would also go so far as to say that even if you are experienced with training you should still have a Real Pro help you.

BZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzaaap! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

UH-OH!! VanCamp categorizes me as a pro??? That's a good thing. Right??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This is a good thread - but was posted under the wrong catagory. I have moved it to Electric Collars. The answers by Cindy, Vince and VanCamp are the correct answers to this question on e-collars.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Sorry DAAAD, one of these days we'll learn to play by the house rules. . .
:rolleyes:

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yeah....sure.... I spend 20 minutes typing in a response and the topic is moved and i have to start over....

Over the years I have watched a lot of trainers and have come to some conclusions. There is a continum of corrections starting with a mild change it verbal tone, increasing to major change in tone and volume, to corrections on a flat collar at various levels, to a slip collar, then a prong, and on to an e-collar. There is a ton of overlap in this continum based on the tool. It is possible to make a lighter correction with an e-collar than with a voice correction. My personal choice is always to use the minimum correction required.

With new trainers there is a tendancy to over correct. As a result of that, I have long been in favor of limiting that ability. As you increase in the ability to correct you also increase the ability to over correct. With new trainers there is a tendancy to become frustrated and over correct. As a result of this they can create problems with any tool. For this reason I think you are much better off learning to work with a dog and how to make effective corrections, rather than making available inappropriate levels of over correction.

I have watched several trainers screw up some very good dogs by abandoning techniques that are working, blaming the tool rather than their ability to use it. I have seen dogs go from adoration of a handler to fear of the handler because of improper use of an e-collar. That isn't the fault of the e-collar but the user.

Drive can be reduced by improper corrections, and over correction. For that reason I have always believed in using the minimun effective correction. By selecting tools as the dog advances it is possible to decrease the required amout of correction required so that there is a greater range of increase available to make changes if required. I save tools for later use if required, It gives me greater options in my training.