 Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357216 - 03/19/2012 06:29 PM |
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Mr. Easterling,
From your post and comments in this thread, I mark you as a pretty nice fellow.
However, in my opinion, letting your dog play with children is an accident waiting to happen.
I should note my four children are all grown, and they grew-up around GSDs. So. I am familiar with children and visiting children and dogs. A person can not be too vigilant when it comes to a dog and a child. It isn't the 99% of the time the dog is wonderful, it is the 1% when that one child and that one dog do not work that is the issue.
A good sized dog can do awful damage to a child in seconds.
The behaviors you describe suggest to me that you should be reluctant to let adults and children get all that close to your dog. That is how I manage my mutts.
I have four GSDs at the moment. Reasonably well trained, CGC tested, one is a therapy dog but they are all dogs. I am very reluctant to let my dogs interact with children or adults. Other dog people, those who have a clear understanding of dog personalities, control, training and owner responsibility get a little slack but Joe Average Citizen is discouraged from close interaction.
In my opinion, you are well advised to be much more guarded in the way you manage your dog's interactions with people.
Some thing could go wrong, based on your post, and it seems to me that the dog has given you signals that you should be heeding. We all want our dogs to be socialized but...
In my opinion, you are taking a way too casual approach to allowing your dog to interact with other people and children.
Just two cents from some one who is not a new kid on the block with it comes to dogs and people.
Mike
Mike A.
"I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin." Hondo, played by John Wayne |
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Mike Arnold ]
#357219 - 03/19/2012 07:23 PM |
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"The behaviors you describe suggest to me that you should be reluctant to let adults and children get all that close to your dog. That is how I manage my mutts. ... Other dog people .... get a little slack but Joe Average Citizen is discouraged from close interaction ..... In my opinion, you are well advised to be much more guarded in the way you manage your dog's interactions with people. .... it seems to me that the dog has given you signals that you should be heeding. ..... In my opinion, you are taking a way too casual approach to allowing your dog to interact with other people and children."
I was searching for the right words, and you guys, Mike and Betty, had the right words. 
I applaud that you come here, Ken, lay it out (readily acknowledging instances of not-well-thought-out management), and actually pay attention to experienced responses without becoming defensive. You might be surprised at how many people post to "advice shop."
It's something that discourages a lot of us, to the point that many just don't bother replying much of the time. It's a breath of fresh air when the ones who really want to ask for and receive constructive criticism come along.
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357225 - 03/19/2012 07:38 PM |
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I view my dogs' human interactions pretty much in the same way that I view their dog-to-dog interactions.
My dogs have a few "dog friends" who belong to my family members...other dogs, I want them to ignore.
My dogs have a few "people friends", say a dozen or so people outside of our household. These are family members and close friends and my dogs spend a good amount of time with the people. My dogs all interact with this group, but I want them to be neutral with other people.
Works great for us 
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357261 - 03/20/2012 08:36 AM |
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Loc: Stoney Creek , Ontario, Canada
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I always say to people "you NEVER know what's going to set a dog off"
One wrong move by a kid (looking the dog in the eye, reaching over or under the dog, grabbing, etc etc) any of those can cause a dog to react with it's teeth. Even if one of the kids "mistakingly" steps on the dogs tail or paw or anything the first reaction for most dogs is to snap. I know a couple times i've stepped on Tuckers tail or paw and he's nipped my foot.
Out of pain but a dog of his size nipping a small child would cause damage.
I don't let kids I do not know interact with Tucker. "Can I pet him?"
"Nope, Sorry"
And if I do bring him somewhere that kids are involved I don't let him leave my side. My neices can play fetch with him, with me right beside them, they can pet him, with me right beside him.
When he is lying down, i don't allow them to bother him.
How horrible would I feel if i turned my back for one second and something happened?
Im not willing to take that risk with my neices or with my dog.
Set boundaries and stick with them. Your dogs life will not be any less fulfilling by removing him from those situations.
Don't complain....TRAIN!!! |
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Wendy Lefebvre ]
#357272 - 03/20/2012 10:25 AM |
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Anyhow I've had couple of instances that make me think that I might need to do a better job of management when I'm out with him or something else......Thoughts?
Ken, I think you have kind of answered your own question.  I believe you need to implement a much higher level of management with Hank.
You've already received wise and knowledgeable advice from some very experienced members and I can't improve upon it; but I think the incidents you describe are serious enough that it cannot be overemphasized.
Your dog is telling you in the canine equivalent of plain English that he is uncomfortable and stressed by what is, to him, unwanted attention. I understand your desire to have a congenial type of dog who can just fit in with the crowd, so to speak, with no worries, but we're talking about a large, powerful dog who can injure a small child just by accidentally knocking them over.
With my dogs, I am cautious almost to the point of paranoia when it comes to allowing people to pet them. An injury caused by your dog can never be taken back. It is my practice to do everything I possibly can to ensure it never happens.
Don't worry about hurting people's feelings when they ask to pet your dog. There are many ways to say it nicely. "Sorry, he's in training." Or for small children, maybe, "Hank's a little tired today and he would prefer to be left alone to rest." It's a matter of safety, not only for the people involved but for Hank, as well. He relies on you to look out for his best interests.
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357344 - 03/20/2012 02:25 PM |
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Loc: The Swamp (Houston), Texas
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Connie how is this for recall?
Hank and I went bike riding this morning (about O dark 30), he was off leash (on e collar) and we were on the bayou road riding along at a pretty good clip (he was trotting). Not much light out there so I didn't see the skunk until about 1 second after Hank did, in skunk time that is an eternity, he got within 3 ft of the thing, and I saw a white tail shoot up (heck I might have been in range too eeek!)and I told Hank to 'leave it' and 'come on' he spun around and left the skunk alone, following me. (He got sprayed back in november, that was fun!) Thank the Lord neither of us got a 'bath'! Hank has some serious real prey drive, so I think we did quite well, and my wife let us back into the house too!
Since we have so much rain here in Houston we have lots of large drainage ditches between neighborhoods. I can leave out the back of my neighborhood and have a contained field that I can make a 3 mile walk on. There aren't many access points because their are cedar fences all around, the only issue is the wildlife have access. It's great that I can go on a walk in the mornings with Hank and walk 3 miles and sometimes not see a soul, and this is town of 3 million!
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357430 - 03/21/2012 08:37 AM |
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I would also get him a vet check... unexplained increases in aggression should be checked out. There might be something going on
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357441 - 03/21/2012 11:53 AM |
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What do you think about castration?
Are you hoping to breed your dog?
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357451 - 03/21/2012 01:15 PM |
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Betty it's hasn't been ruled out, and my wife and I have thought about breeding, I'd like to get to know him better first, somethings things you can't "undo".
This was a note I received from a breeder I correspond with who hunts is Ridgebacks, sometimes I just need a good kick in the pants.
http://www.waarheidridgebacks.com
All due respect Ken, what are you doing???
NEVER leave a highly self-possessed, highly aloof, highly protective dog with child-strangers unattended - never - ... ever.
Ridgebacks are not supposed to be gregarious sycophants. They are not supposed to like, let alone love, every stranger they meet. If you want them to accept strangers in your presence, then teach the dog a cue. I find that the command "lay-down" works extremely well with my pack. And take Connie's advice - your dog does not exist to be everyone else's plush toy. Learn the phrase, use the phrase - don't be a jerk about it, but be kind and firm with them, adults and children alike - "No, you cannot pet my dog until he understands that you and I are friends, that I trust you."
Never, ever leave a ridgeback unsecured in a vehicle, especially a vehicle that the ridgeback might associate with your family. This breed's progenitors were developed as the dutch transport riders and voortrekers wagon-dogs. Their guarding instincts will go into hyper-drive when put into or near your "wagon", that is to say, your car. When you put him in that position - in the back of the SUV with the back left open and you walking away - you put him on the clock. This breed-characteristic was not only fine, but highly desirable in colonial southern Africa 130 years ago, but in modern litigious McMansion suburbia you are setting your dog up for getting himself and yourself in trouble.
Don't get me wrong, the average/typical Ridgeback is a very stable and family-friendly dog, but they also have highly attenuated guarding instincts and they are not stranger-friendly. A Ridgeback with the breed-appropriate temperament will accept strangers who you accept and who do not invade their space or yours, but they will not suffer fools - so it is your job to run interference between your dog and the fools.
I've know I've never been this harsh with you in our previous exchanges, but you really need to wake up, hence the tone. Hopefully I haven't offended you too badly to distract you from my salient points.
Feel free to post this response to the forum if you think it might serve to help others a similar situation.
Take care.
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Re: Strange Behavior from Hank, need some help.
[Re: Ken Easterling ]
#357460 - 03/21/2012 03:35 PM |
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One of our Boerboel clubs had a very unpleasant incident last summer just before the yearly appraisal.
Long story short, a small and precocious child, brought up around a pack of Boerboels, rushed up to a strange dog, who had never been socialized around children, because his owner lived on a remote farm, and never came into contact with children, nor was likely to, he was a working sheep herder.
The dog was being taken out of the car, well away from the children, who were all screaming and running around, when this kid scorched up yelling, threw its arms around the owner, the dog freaked out and lunged at the 'attacker' and inflicted life changing injuries to the child's face; Upshot was a child in hospital, the dog was destroyed and decade long friendships over in a heartbeat.
What happened to the child was awful, but there was a great deal of sympathy for the owner, and my own personal opinion was the child's parents should have known better than to allow their child to behave like that around strange dogs, but the owner of the dog copped all the flack, neither they or the dog did anything wrong, but complacency on the part of all the adults letting their kids run riot around a lot of guard dogs with high prey drive, just because they knew each other, resulted in a child with a scarred face, a dead dog, and the child's parents getting rid of their Boerboels, (because they said they couldn't trust them anymore??!!) who hadn't done anything wrong.
It just isn't ever worth the risk - for people, children or dogs.
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