Originally posted by VanCamp: Cuz. . . you can surely teach a dog to stay the hell out of the garbage by zapping him on high stim every time he touches it, right?
That isn't positive punishment?
Actually bro, the technicality of my operant quandrant usage might be off. You are right. That is positive punishment. If I'm not mistaken avoidance conditioning is get this "postive reinforcement". Because you're actually reinforcing with an aversive positively, meaning "applying it".
Whoa boys... avoidance conditioning is negative reinforcement, not positive. The positive and negative verbage relates to adding or taking away, not to some emotional aspect of the stimulus.
No you can't teach the retrieve purely thru positive punishment. Why? cuz positive punishment is presenting an aversive stimulus to WEAKEN, ELIMINATE, OR REDUCE THE FREQUENCY of a behavior. In other words, you can punish behaviors you don't want, and it will reduce them or eliminate them, but that NEVER teaches the dog what he should be doing. It never strengthens a behavior. So the dog will never understand what behavior he should be doing (retrieving), but he will definitely learn all the alternative behaviors you don't like!
Originally posted by Valdes43: Why's that? In avoidance conditioning you are applying (positive) an aversive (reinforcement). right? an aversive to reinforce what you've already taught is what i meant.
Ok, I see where you're off - in avoidance conditioning, the onset of the aversive stimulus (let's call it the e-collar stim) isn't what serves to reinforce the behavior. It's the CESSATION of the stim (taking away = NEGATIVE) that strengthens the behavior immediately preceding it. Thorndyke's Law of Effect: That which is followed by pleasant consequences will be more likely to be repeated; that which is followed by unpleasant consequences will tend to diminish.
For the record: I was wrong in saying it was positive reinforcement because reinforcement is supposed to strengthen the behavior and the behavior we're actually correcting when using avoidance conditioning we are trying to weaken. MY BAD.
Robert VanCamp Webboard User Reg: 11-28-2001
Posts: 3916
Loc:
Offline
Damnit, I didn't say you can teach the retrieve using positive punishment!
You jerk. . .stop makin' me sound dumb, I do enough of that on my own.
You can extinguish undesireable behavior with positive punishment. Like teaching Fido to stay the hell out of the trash, that is what I said.
You dog nerds stop messing me up. Can someone answer my question simply (SchH3FH2).
If you use negative reinforcement to teach the down (e-collar), and you do it correctly will the effects be more lasting than using positive punishment (with e-collar) to keep the dog down.
Is there science that shows what method is more lasting? I don't know if you use extinction in terms of aversives, but is one method more resistant to extinction?
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Top
Previous Topic
Index
Next Topic.jpg)
