Something's not right here Shannon. Are you sure the collar is on tight enough? Not to argue about how hard she may be or that stubborn or willful is probably just confused from inconsistant, unclear training, but I've seen what a Dogtra on 40 does at a time thats a whole lot more distraction then a dog in the distance.

Were you able to find any of the desensitizing threads?

You won't find anything like this in them:
" I have actually used the 127 on her (refused to listen to my "come" command when she was busy barking at another dog). Told her "NO!" then I nicked her at the 127 level before repeating the command." 127??



Are you doing obedience training? Tell us about that. What everyone here is talking about is working on upbeat ob and focus outside the dog's reaction range.

Please go into some detail about your ob work, whether you do focus work, whether you marker train ....

" Not to argue about how hard she may be or that stubborn or willful is probably just confused from inconsistant, unclear training, "


I'll argue about it. "Stubborn" and "willful" are pretty sure to actually be "confused from inconsistant, unclear training."



If you can't find the dog-reactivity desensitizing threads, just bump this and let me know and I can find some and link you later today.

That's fine - I'll argue back. Yes, the collar is on tight enough. And no, she's not confused from inconsistent, unclear training.

I do OB with her a every day. I use Ed's marker training method, I continue to work on focus & engagement. My current response when we have to pass another dog (or have another dog pass us on a walk) is to pull her to the side and work on engaging her and having her focus on me. This is still a struggle, but it's getting better.

This is a hard dog. From the little bit of paperwork I received from the animal rescue organization I got her from, she was in and out of many homes the first few years of her life, and I think trained all wrong in all the wrong ways. When I first put the e-collar on to see what level she needed to do the training at, she didn't even show a reaction until I hit 60 - 65. Then it was the blink/head jerk that Ed talked about in his video. I was convinced I was doing it all wrong, so I had a friend (who has used e-collars very successfully on his dog - wonderfully trained) help me and yes, 60 - 65 is the lowest setting she responds to.

But back to my original question: when taking her on a walk and she stares down another dog/puts her tail up, etc. is this a form of dog aggression and does this warrant a correction?

 Quote:

From the little bit of paperwork I received from the animal rescue organization I got her from, she was in and out of many homes the first few years of her life, and I think trained all wrong in all the wrong ways.

 Quote:

When I first put the e-collar on to see what level she needed to do the training at, she didn't even show a reaction until I hit 60 - 65.

And now something new. Thats what inconsistant means Shannon.

Hold the ecollar in your hand tightly and press nick at 20, then tell me 65 is where she first feels it. Something is wrong, either with your collar or with the contact on her neck. This is also going to lead to inconsistant training because your're going to crank that thing up, like you already did, and send her into a panic because that time, she felt the full stim.

 Quote: Shannon Pedroni

.... But back to my original question: when taking her on a walk and she stares down another dog/puts her tail up, etc. is this a form of dog aggression and does this warrant a correction?

Not for me. If I've given the reactive dog the opportunity to get that focused (to be doing stink-eye and staring down the strange dog), then I've missed the approach of the strange dog and I've waited much too long to react.

For me, my goal is for the dog to have bulletproof ob and focus on me that become the fallback behavior. But this doesn't start with working within my dog's reactive range. It's a well-planned campaign that starts with no-distraction ob and only gradually goes "on the road" to just at the edge of (but outside) my dog's trigger range.

From the thread linked to above:

"Start at a distance where your dog can pay attention to you, decrease the distance when they're ready for it. Solid, focused obedience that lets them tune out the bogeymen. You'll be amazed what a confidence boost your dog will get."

That's the gist of the work.

There's lots of good detail and supplementary info, including management, and I'll get those links for you. It will have to be a little later, but I won't forget.

You will find this work satisfying, and also a great enhancement of the bond between you and the dog. There really is no downside to it, IMO.

"My current response when we have to pass another dog (or have another dog pass us on a walk) is to pull her to the side and work on engaging her and having her focus on me. This is still a struggle, but it's getting better. "

This sounds good. But when I can do it, in the first stages of desensitizing work, I calmly cross the street or change direction way before the strange dog is within my dog's zone. I prefer not to have that struggle when I can avoid it, so I can avoid strengthening that habit.

JMO!


This is down the road, but the correction, if needed, would be for not complying with the ob command -- not for the reactivity.

But this is down the road, because, turning it around a little, the strange dog passing by is one of the high-level distractions against which the ob is proofed.

Okay - thanks!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

There's lots of good detail and supplementary info, including management, and I'll get those links for you.

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24232&page=2#251709

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24232&page=3

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24232&page=3#251762

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24388&page=1#253391

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=28694&page=3#312536

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=31002&page=2#345751

A quote from an old thread:
" ... I saw a golden coming down the road and passed off Miles to my mother. I walked and as soon as Dante focused on him, I gave a stern correction (he was wearing a flat collar) and said "no! Leave it". Honestly I think he was in shock since that has never happened to him before. He still looked at the other dog, but didn't let a bark off, and I never stopped walking. I felt bad correcting him, he is extremely sweet and sensitive, but I have to hope it drove a point home for him. Do you think correcting him in this fashion will make him aggressive toward strange dogs approaching? Is there a reason why I shouldn't do it? I remember during Ed's video about working puppies he corrects the german shepherd puppy for jumping up on a person for attention and then calls it over to him happy toned .... "

I replied:
Not really similar to jumping up on people .... and no, I would not at all want to link strange dogs with corrections in the dog's mind. What you want is desensitizing the dog -- lowering his reactivity. IMO, the opposite of correcting the dog for looking. "... as soon as Dante focused on him" is what you will be avoiding, not correcting.

 Quote: Shannon Pedroni

Started working her on the e-collar a week ago. Bought the dogtra low-hi one cause I know how willful she is. Started testing what level to set it on like Ed shows how to do in his video - she won't respond to anything lower than a 65 (on a scale of 1 - 127). I have actually used the 127 on her (refused to listen to my "come" command when she was busy barking at another dog). Told her "NO!" then I nicked her at the 127 level before repeating the command. Had to do this a few times before she came to me (and was given lots of praise for finally listening to the command). When she finally came she had this "HELLO! Did you not SEE the other DOG? HE WAS RIGHT THERE" kinda attitude.

This dog is awesome. She cannot be broken.

????? Disturbing choice of words..... considering the remark was made regarding a serioulsy high e-collar correction.

Is your goal to "break" the dog? I've seen broken dogs before- they have no spirit, no fire.... no will to live.