Betty Landercasp wrote 04/09/2012 08:19 PM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Cheri Grissom ] #358639 - 04/09/2012 08:19 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	The rarity of CD and parvo makes your think that the immunity from vaccine might be lifetime. But if you have EVER seen the wild type agent, you have fear in your heart for your dog. These agents are just terrible, ghastly, especially distemper. Parvo is at least treatable. Here on the farm ---- just on Saturday, fencing, and down by the creek on a little sandbar lay a dead coyote,in sternal recumbancy, as though resting, his nose by the water, just inches from the water. I don't know when he died, or what happened to him -- was he hit by a car? Shot? Or did he suffer and die of distemper or parvo, and that's why he lay by the water? To try to rehydrate? I tell you the sight of him was awful, it elicited such a response in me that I paid the neighbors 15 yr old to bag it up and put it in the dumpster. When The Pinker went to investigate, I was damn glad he has 3 puppy shots on board and a booster at l yr. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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Dave Owen wrote 04/10/2012 09:29 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Betty Landercasp ] #358668 - 04/10/2012 09:29 AM
Dave Owen Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2011 Posts: 381 Loc: Alberta Canada Offline	after a feirce bout of pano in the little man, I was terrified of vacine induced HOD, did a ton of reserch, trip to vet, some more worring I'm still leaning to getting new puppies done, we are in coyote country I'd just hate for a new pup to get something that could have been vacinated for...... this used to be an easy decision......
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Dave Owen wrote 04/10/2012 09:31 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Betty Landercasp ] #358669 - 04/10/2012 09:31 AM
Dave Owen Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2011 Posts: 381 Loc: Alberta Canada Offline	double Edited by Dave Owen (04/10/2012 09:31 AM) Edit reason: double deleted
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Joyce Salazar wrote 04/10/2012 10:36 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Dave Owen ] #358676 - 04/10/2012 10:36 AM
Joyce Salazar Webboard User Reg: 02-28-2008 Posts: 2075 Loc: Dallas, Texas Offline	http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/Clinical-Mgmt-Treat-Adverse-Vaccine-Reactions-Dodds2009.pdf Above is a very good link to understanding adverse vaccine reactions. While it too is lengthy, I think it is a very important part of understanding why " one size fits all dogs" vaccination is flawed. From this above link a quote from Jean Dodds  Quote: An augmented immune response to vaccination is seen in dogs with pre-existing inhalant allergies (atopy) to pollens. Furthermore, the increasing current problems with allergic and immunological diseases have been linked to the introduction of MLV vaccines more than 20 years ago. While other environmental factors no doubt have a contributing role, the introduction of these vaccine antigens and their environmental shedding may provide the final insult that exceeds the immunological tolerance threshold of some individuals in the pet population. The accumulated evidence indicates that vaccination protocols should no longer be considered as a “one size fits all” program. Also this about understanding titers:  Quote: Excerpt: Background There is no doubt that application of modern vaccine technology has permitted us to protect companion animals effectively against serious infectious diseases. Some veterinarians have challenged the validity of using vaccine titer testing to assess the immunologic status of animals against the common, clinically important infectious diseases. With all due respect, this represents a misunderstanding of what has been called the “fallacy of titer testing”, because research has shown that once an animal’s titer stabilizes it is likely to remain constant for many years. Properly immunized animals have sterilizing immunity that not only prevents clinical disease but also prevents infection, and only the presence of antibody can prevent infection. As stated by eminent expert Dr. Ronald Schultz in discussing the value of vaccine titer testing, these tests “show that an animal with a positive test has sterilizing immunity and should be protected from infection. If that animal were vaccinated it would not respond with a significant increase in antibody titer, but may develop a hypersensitivity to vaccine components (e.g. fetal bovine serum). Furthermore, the animal doesn't need to be revaccinated and should not be revaccinated since the vaccine could cause an adverse reaction (hypersensitivity disorder). You should avoid vaccinating animals that are already protected. It is often said that the antibody level detected is “only a snapshot in time". That's simply not true; it is more a “motion picture that plays for years". Furthermore, protection as indicated by a positive titer result is not likely to suddenly drop-off unless an animal develops a medical problem such as cancer or receives high or prolonged doses of immunosuppressive drugs. Viral vaccines prompt an immune response that lasts much longer than that elicited by classic antigen. Lack of distinction between the two kinds of responses may be why practitioners think titers can suddenly disappear. But, not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity. Those that do include: distemper virus, adenovirus, and parvovirus in the dog, and panleukopenia virus in the cat. Examples of vaccines that produced non-sterile immunity would be leptospirosis, bordetella, rabies virus, herpesvirus and calicivirus --- the latter two being upper respiratory viruses of cats. While non-sterile immunity may not protect the animal from infection, it should keep the infection from progressing to severe clinical disease. Therefore, interpreting titers correctly depends upon the disease in question. Some titers must reach a certain level to indicate immunity, but with other agents like those that produce sterile immunity, the presence of any measurable antibody shows protection. The positive titer test result is fairly straightforward, but a negative titer test result is more difficult to interpret, because a negative titer is not the same thing as a zero titer and it doesn't necessarily mean that animal is unprotected. A negative result usually means the titer has failed to reach the threshold of providing sterile immunity. This is an important distinction, because for the clinically important distemper and parvovirus diseases of dogs, and panleukopenia of cats, a negative or zero antibody titer indicates that the animal is not protected against canine parvovirus and may not be protected against canine distemper virus or feline panleukopenia virus. Finally, what does more than a decade of experience with vaccine titer testing reveal ? Published studies in refereed journals show that 90-98% of dogs and cats that have been properly vaccinated develop good measurable antibody titers to the infectious agent measured.. _____________________________________________________ Reasons for Vaccine Titer Testing: * 1. To determine that animal is protected (suggested by a positive test result). 2. To identify a susceptible animal (suggested by a negative test result). 3. To determine whether an individual animal has responded to a vaccine. 4. To determine whether an individual vaccine is effectively immunizing animals. * from: Schultz RD, Ford RB, Olsen J, Scott F. Titer testing and vaccination: a new look at traditional practices. Vet Med, 97: 1-13, 2002 (insert). Joyce Salazar
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/10/2012 10:44 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Cheri Grissom ] #358677 - 04/10/2012 10:44 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	This is a thread to bookmark, IMO. Thank you, Joyce (and everyone)! GREAT thread, Cheri.
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Lori Hall wrote 04/10/2012 07:32 PM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #358713 - 04/10/2012 07:32 PM
Lori Hall Webboard User Reg: 06-12-2007 Posts: 1039 Loc: So. California coast Offline	So glad this came up! I've been wondering the same things, but in addition, since Kasey is a pretty hard core allergy dog, I am even more afraid to vaccinate again. Kasey had the puppy shots, and then his 1 year boosters. He hasn't had any more vaccinations since, and he is now 5 1/2. I have heard so many different opinions on titers that I just don't know what the truth is - I will watch and read the above links. Kasey is on allergy shots, antihistimines, anti-yeast Rx on weekends, and even has to have some low dose steroid when he's really uncomfortable. Does all this make a difference in whether to vaccinate or not? What would you guys do if you were me?
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Joyce Salazar wrote 04/11/2012 10:26 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Lori Hall ] #358729 - 04/11/2012 10:26 AM
Joyce Salazar Webboard User Reg: 02-28-2008 Posts: 2075 Loc: Dallas, Texas Offline	Lori, I am sending you a PM. Joyce Salazar
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/11/2012 11:54 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Lori Hall ] #358733 - 04/11/2012 11:54 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I'm sending a PM too. I will say here that my allergic dog's 3-year rabies is always scheduled for his off-season (his allergies let up quite a bit November through February). He is on no meds when he gets that rabies three-year booster, and is never in the middle of a bad allergy cycle.
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Betty Landercasp wrote 04/11/2012 01:30 PM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Cheri Grissom ] #358740 - 04/11/2012 01:30 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	Lori I don't think I'd vaccinate your dog at all anymore for the DHLP-Parvo, and I'd do titers for rabies. You could call Colorado State in Fort Collins and speak to the diagnostic laboratory veterinarians, ask them what they feel is protective titer for rabies, perhaps even ask how many cases of rabies in wildlife there have been in Colorado in recent years. It may not even be a threat any longer in your environment. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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Lori Hall wrote 04/12/2012 09:55 AM Re: Aside From the Dodds Protocol... [Re: Betty Landercasp ] #358773 - 04/12/2012 09:55 AM
Lori Hall Webboard User Reg: 06-12-2007 Posts: 1039 Loc: So. California coast Offline	Betty, we live in California, and unfortunately they will not accept titters in lieu of the rabies vaccine.
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