Thanks Tracy, I had 8oz of kidney and liver with 1lbs of chicken backs/quarters/turkey necks. I will be sure to knock that down significantly on my little chart.

That would be way too much liver in a meal.

The other category of food that hasn't come up in this conversation (perhaps you already know about this) is muscle meat.

MM is just that--any meat (from any source) without bones. A diet made of just poultry parts (the necks, backs and quarters you've mentioned) will be too much bone, likely causing constipation. It's okay to START with just those parts--we're starting with one thing, so you've got to start with something.

But the second thing to introduce into the diet ought to be some kind of muscle meat. Hunk of pork. Gob of ground beef. Deer meat--choice is yours.

Because poultry parts are so frequently the "raw meaty bones" part of the diet, choosing red meat for the muscle meat helps provide variety. But you can also use boneless turkey or chicken---just keep variety in the back of your mind as you plan meals. This is for down the road a few weeks. Not at first.

By weight, the diet should be a little more than half RMB, a little less than half MM, and about 10% organ meat. Those are rough ratios. This isn't an exact science. You'll quickly be able to know based on your dog's poop if you've got the RMB to MM right. Too much bone = dry, crumbly poops that the dog strains to produce.

Keep asking questions. We're here to help.

 Quote: Jeffrey Hill

Thanks Tracy, I had 8oz of kidney and liver with 1lbs of chicken backs/quarters/turkey necks. I will be sure to knock that down significantly on my little chart.

Good .... you can forever avoid what would have been the next thread: "pudding and liquid diarrhea."

That goal of 10% or so of organ meat in the diet can be worked up to, too, to completely avoid GI reaction to sudden organ meat.

I'd way rather avoid than fix diarrhea.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

I can't see any benefit or disadvantage from leaving the meat frozen. Your choice. It *might* slow her down, but that's mostly an issue of knowing your dog's quirks and feeding appropriately sized parts.

I need some experienced advice. ..... SEE BELOW

Edited by Connie Sutherland (04/20/2012 10:31 PM)
Edit reason: mod edit

 Quote: Nancy Manuel

I need some experienced advice. ..... (post moved)

That would be a good new thread. That way all the answers are geared to your question.

I'll move it for you and avoid a hijack.

Go to:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32137&page=1#359134

I am going to order the two books leerburg sends home with their dogs and see if that doesn't clear up the last of of my questions. I go to double check everything with the butcher tomorrow, going to order 40# backs and 40# quarters #30 pounds turkey necks And then I will just buy the hamburger and ground turkey every week when I go up to the store.

Salmon oil, vit c, e, alfalfa, kelp and liquid glucosamine I will order with the books.

got the books, read through them still have a few questions.

For two days could I feed embark with the probiotics mixed in, then begin the raw?

You suggest starting with just chicken backs. Heidi is about 100 pounds so should I be feeding around 2 pounds of chicken backs the first few days? I am going to smash up the backs with a hammer and watch to make sure she is chewing her food. My only concern is all that bone being introduced into her diet might cause constipation. I might add a little bit of ground beef mixed up with more probiotic powder for the first few weeks if that would be ok?

 Quote: Jeffrey Hill

got the books, read through them still have a few questions.

For two days could I feed embark with the probiotics mixed in, then begin the raw?

You suggest starting with just chicken backs. Heidi is about 100 pounds so should I be feeding around 2 pounds of chicken backs the first few days? I am going to smash up the backs with a hammer and watch to make sure she is chewing her food. My only concern is all that bone being introduced into her diet might cause constipation. I might add a little bit of ground beef mixed up with more probiotic powder for the first few weeks if that would be ok?

The intro of one item is brief .... to observe poop. You would not allow constipation to get a start. If I were going to add muscle meat right away, though, which would be fine, it would be chicken. That is, I would be sticking to the one-at-a-time thing. That's JMO. I prefer to do one item at a time so I can immediately identify any GI problem. I really like to avoid any diarrhea (or constipation, in fact), and I do this with one-at-a-time additions.

But backing up .... you are feeding Embark? You are planning to feed Embark with RMBs? This changes the answers to most of your questions. You would simply start adding the backs to the Embark as directed on the package. THK isn't in the category of kibble at all. It "goes with" raw very well.

Let us know id that's your plan.

" I might add a little bit of ground beef mixed up with more probiotic powder for the first few weeks if that would be ok?"


Even if you are planning full-on raw, no THK, it won't take a few weeks to get up to the full diet. More like a few days, maybe a week. (Maybe the full 5% or so of organ meat won't be incorporated within a week, but pretty much the rest of the types of food would be.)

I want to feed embark at least once a week so that if/when I need to leave town and leave her with the trainers they can feed her embark and I don't have to worry about them messing with a full blown raw diet.


Also thought I would ask, is anyone out there using kangen water? and if so do they give it to their dog as well. Right now I only give her the neutral clean water.