Quote: SamanthaTopper

I briefly considered searching for info if it's tax money funded, but decided that I disliked the story so much that I'd rather not ruin my morning by finding out more bad news. I'm glad to hear that their program is funded by other means, even if I am still wholly against breeding mutts.

So your argument against this program is founded in the fact that they are not using purebred dogs?

It sucks for the dog & the x-owner but she should have taken the necessary steps to keep her pet contained and safe, then she could still be feeding him oatmeal.

Maybe Chief kept running away to find some meat.

 Quote: Amy VandeWeerd

I did some more research...

Amy, kudos to you for being an informed, responsible poster.

Your post caused me to do more research, and I learned that Angola is actually a state penitentiary. I'd been to the rodeo several times and followed news about programs there, and had still managed to overlook this fact.

The dog training facility is not just for these guard dogs; the C.C.Dixon K-9 center has been in operation there for years and is headed by the grandson of the namesake, who is the fourth consecutive generation of Dixon managing said facility. They also house, breed and train service dogs and bloodhounds. Some of their dogs even do community outreach and educational work.

British Columbia Wolf hey, hmmm… new one. Strange looking breed. And used as guard dogs?? I can see pacing the perimeter looking for an exit but they must be breeding a lot of shepherd into those guys. Okay, we won't go there.

But Amy, I just wanted to point out that the article actually got it right, if that dog does have any wolf him. They used the term "wolfdog". The term "hybrid" is really over used as a descriptor for these lower-content wolf dogs.

A bit of an example. Just say the word Hybrid and people automatically assume you're talking about wolf crosses.

But if you took say... a pure Fox Hound and bred it with a pure Dachshund, you'd probably get a pretty Foxy Doxy but that pup could also be considered a Fox Hound Hybrid or a Dachshund Hybrid.

You've got two known, pure, origins that are being combined to create that hybrid. Much like they do with plants.

But when you start to breed that pure hybrid (is that an oxymoron?) to other breeds, (let's say a Rat Terrier for fun) sure, it may have some Fox Hound in it but it's no longer a Fox Hound Hybrid. Probably more like a Ratty Foxy Doxy.

And much like this dog, simply saying a British Columbia wolf (not a breed by the way) says they don't know the real origin of the parents and something tells me it wasn't one of the wolves we have up here. It's probably the information they got from the owners who simply bought a cute puppy at face value with a lot of talk thrown in there.

But all that aside, a hybrid is a known wolf that's bred to a known dog. Wolfdogs are the unknown mixes, lower contents and more diluted lines which make up the majority of wolfdogs out there.

And of course it can go the other way, where another known wolf is bred with that hybrid to produce the higher content wolfdogs but then we're not dealing with the crossing of two pure species or varieties that the term "hybrid" refers to and you start getting into the "F" generational things. True hybrids are not very common.

The article is refreshing in that it did use the correct term; the information is getting out there.

Much like the term "Pit Bull". Just say the word Pit Bull and it conjures up all kinds of feelings for people. And it’s a lot to do with the way they've been portrayed. How often do you hear Staffordshire terrier terrorizes town or Pit Bull saves baby's life. It's always portrayed the opposite way.

Please don’t get me wrong, I in NO WAY condone the cross breeding of these guys but they are out there and need knowledgeable rescue just like any other animal that is spared the needle.

Just trying to do my part to clear up the negative overuse of the word “hybrid” that people have become so complacent with.

Total semantics but it's one of those things that has just as skewed a perspective as a wolf guard dog that eats oatmeal.

 Quote: Tresa Hendrix

And I'm a hater

Tresa, I'm not sure what you're referring to here but I hope it's not the innocent animals that are the product of man’s stupidity. I hope it's the actions of the men and women that chose to create and sell these animals to an ill informed public for profit and ego.

Okay, there's my rant for the year. Really happy to hear that this boy has a decent home now though and a job.

I actually really like these types of institutional programs and am much happier seeing my tax dollars go to something like this rather than a lot of other things happening out there.

Foxy Doxy - LMAO

CJ, I'm a hater of dumb people...esp ones who are irresponsible, promote misinformation (ex: say their husky is a wolfdog)...what this really means is I wish they would wake up...so in that sense I am not a true hater.

 Quote: David Winners

 Quote: SamanthaTopper

I briefly considered searching for info if it's tax money funded, but decided that I disliked the story so much that I'd rather not ruin my morning by finding out more bad news. I'm glad to hear that their program is funded by other means, even if I am still wholly against breeding mutts.

So your argument against this program is founded in the fact that they are not using purebred dogs?

Yes. The idea of breeding mutts for guard duty makes my skin crawl, and to top it all off, John Doe will think that Angola is using WOLVES to rip inmates apart if they attempt to escape. This will lead John Doe to go out and buy his own 'wolf' who will then most likely lead a life of suffering and eventually become a news statistic after it rips the face off a baby who came into his yard while the dog was on a chain.

Pure breed dogs bought with a responsible mind will have a bloodline history that a person can look at and make an educated guess as to what the pups will turn out like. Breeding mutts to mutts, even with documented history of where those dogs came from, is a crap shoot and gambling with living animals that will be destroyed if they're unable to provide. Unless Angola is selling out their 'wolf-dogs' that don't make the cut, which is just conjecture on my part.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, not totally disagreeing with your statement. I'm just interested in this conversation, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

How do you think all those "pure" breeds were established? It is my understanding that dogs of desirable qualities were bred together for the purpose of refining a line of dogs to a certain criteria, be that looks or working ability. Isn't that what they may be doing?

Why is this practice viewed upon with such high regard after the fact, but frowned upon in the early stages? If I do it now, I'm breeding mutts, but 50 years from now when I have the best dock diving dogs on the planet, I'm an innovator.

If I think AmStaff / Lab crosses are great dogs, and I want to take the best of those crosses, and refine them into a new breed of dog, am I any different than Von Stephanitz?

Burl Cain has nade a life's work of taking society's rejects and transforming them into productive citizens. His methodology is based in Christian fundamentals and values. I think it highly unlikely that this program is run any differently, and I am certain that he does not allow dogs from his center to find their way into the hands of civilians or kill shelters.
I appreciate Samantha's concerns, but I would place MY energy into being concerned about the immoral methods employed by BYBs, puppy mills, and show-line breeders. They cause more harm to the universe of purebreds than any responsible K9 center could ever do with a handful of crossbreds.
Moreover, what about the gads of irresponsible purebred owners? We've all heard of or know of JohnDoe who buys a purebred dog from Acme Pet Shop (which pbly gets THEIR supply from a puppy mill). John Doe then allows Fidette to get knocked up by any ole passerby mutt. What happens to those puppies? I once heard of a lady who bred her purebred dog to the neighbor's crossbred because she wanted her children to "witness the miracle of birth". WTF?! What happens to THOSE puppies? (BTW, what becomes of her daughter, who now thinks it's okay to breed with any ole passerby mutt?).
I train with a very responsible APBT breeder who is preserving his grandfather's bloodlines. Every decent PB breeder in our area is familiar with the Ferguson line. How could he possibly guarantee that none of his dogs would ever end up in the hands of the kind of thugs that give PBs a bad name?

There are so many idiots in our society that I try not to condemn the few educated, responsible citizens and organizations that remain.