I never take everything from any source as gospel. It always comes down to an opinion, so I treat said information as such. I am learning about how dogs learn, and the author's opinions on why this is the case. Even just reading about the studies done on behavior makes the book worthwhile, and that paired with his explanation of what the results of a study can possibly mean can lend me knowledge to more efficiently affect the behavior in a puppy or dog. Everything is just tools in your toolbox. This book gives me a new way to look at learning behavior, a possible reason for it's functionality and it's possible source. I think it's cool.

I have raised a mastiff from 6 weeks to 8 years with no physical punishment, and very few verbal corrections. With the right dog, it is possible. Could I have achieved competition level OB? No way, but is that a fault of mine or the learning process?

Could I do the same with Tresa's Logan? If I fail, is it a fault of my lack of communication skills, understanding, or of the process?

Could I have dealt with Fama without a prong, not as effectively, because she was trained through compulsion. Will I have to use physical corrections on my next WL GSD? I hope not, but only time will tell. Why use physical corrections if I can successfully make compliance to my commands more rewarding than failure to comply.

I believe part of the problem with blanket statements about canine learning behavior is that it comes down to drive. A dog is going to work for whatever reward is of higher value, whether that reward is food, toy, or relief from pressure or stress. Different levels of drive are going to limit the effectiveness of any given training protocol. Is the piece of bacon of higher value than getting to bite that stranger? For one dog 100% yes, for another dog 100% no. It's always subjective to the individual dog.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Ben McDonald

Hrmm... a dog book I don't have.

I also reccomend:

The Dog Who Loved Too Much: Tales, Treatments and the Psychology of Dogs - Nicholas Dodman (Very interesting stories!)

The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs - Patricia McConnell (Dog owners bible)

For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend - Patricia McConnell

Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know - Alexandra Horowitz

The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior (Howell Reference Books)- Bruce Fogle, Anne B. Wilson

Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training - Karen Pryor

Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening Our Relationships with Dogs - Suzanne Clothier

How To Speak Dog: Mastering the Art of Dog-Human Communication - Stanley Coren

All of the books by Patricia B. McConnell Ph.D. are also good, though short. Turid Rugaas has a interesting insight in canine
body language.

If you have kids - Nubs: The True Story of a Mutt, a Marine & a Miracle - Brian Dennis (Very cute story!)

Ok , I'll stop now.

Don't forget
http://leerburg.com/952.htm
http://leerburg.com/952a.htm
http://leerburg.com/952b.htm

It took me forever to get these (mostly with holiday and birthday LB gift certificates I demanded/begged over the years), but they are prized possessions.

All three are great, but the third one is just terrific. JMO!

The Steven R. Lindsay set of three is the best set of dog behavior/training books EVER...and I have shelves full of them.
Ditto on vol 3!
It doesn't mean that I'm not going to get "Dog Sense" though.

 Quote: Bob Scott

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Ben McDonald

Hrmm... a dog book I don't have.

I also reccomend:

The Dog Who Loved Too Much: Tales, Treatments and the Psychology of Dogs - Nicholas Dodman (Very interesting stories!)

The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs - Patricia McConnell (Dog owners bible)

For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend - Patricia McConnell

Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know - Alexandra Horowitz

The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior (Howell Reference Books)- Bruce Fogle, Anne B. Wilson

Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training - Karen Pryor

Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening Our Relationships with Dogs - Suzanne Clothier

How To Speak Dog: Mastering the Art of Dog-Human Communication - Stanley Coren

All of the books by Patricia B. McConnell Ph.D. are also good, though short. Turid Rugaas has a interesting insight in canine
body language.

If you have kids - Nubs: The True Story of a Mutt, a Marine & a Miracle - Brian Dennis (Very cute story!)

Ok , I'll stop now.

Don't forget
http://leerburg.com/952.htm
http://leerburg.com/952a.htm
http://leerburg.com/952b.htm

It took me forever to get these (mostly with holiday and birthday LB gift certificates I demanded/begged over the years), but they are prized possessions.

All three are great, but the third one is just terrific. JMO!

The Steven R. Lindsay set of three is the best set of dog behavior/training books EVER...and I have shelves full of them.
Ditto on vol 3!
It doesn't mean that I'm not going to get "Dog Sense" though.

Sticker shock!

I see you all missed

Excel-Erated learning by Pamela J. Reed

I like what David's saying about taking some and leaving some for your tool box. Even though I'm the negative nancy at the moment, I still threw a few ideas into the tool kit with this book. Besides, the only thing two dog trainers can agree on is that the third trainer is definitely wrong. =)

 Quote: David Winners

 Quote: Bob Scott

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Ben McDonald

Hrmm... a dog book I don't have.

I also reccomend:

The Dog Who Loved Too Much: Tales, Treatments and the Psychology of Dogs - Nicholas Dodman (Very interesting stories!)

The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs - Patricia McConnell (Dog owners bible)

For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend - Patricia McConnell

Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know - Alexandra Horowitz

The Dog's Mind: Understanding Your Dog's Behavior (Howell Reference Books)- Bruce Fogle, Anne B. Wilson

Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training - Karen Pryor

Bones Would Rain from the Sky: Deepening Our Relationships with Dogs - Suzanne Clothier

How To Speak Dog: Mastering the Art of Dog-Human Communication - Stanley Coren

All of the books by Patricia B. McConnell Ph.D. are also good, though short. Turid Rugaas has a interesting insight in canine
body language.

If you have kids - Nubs: The True Story of a Mutt, a Marine & a Miracle - Brian Dennis (Very cute story!)

Ok , I'll stop now.

Don't forget
http://leerburg.com/952.htm
http://leerburg.com/952a.htm
http://leerburg.com/952b.htm

It took me forever to get these (mostly with holiday and birthday LB gift certificates I demanded/begged over the years), but they are prized possessions.

All three are great, but the third one is just terrific. JMO!

The Steven R. Lindsay set of three is the best set of dog behavior/training books EVER...and I have shelves full of them.
Ditto on vol 3!
It doesn't mean that I'm not going to get "Dog Sense" though.

Sticker shock!

Yea,had to sell a couple of grandkids to get those 3 books but they were feral mostly so they couldn't be trained.
Convincing my kids that all I wanted for Bday and Christmas was LB gift certs certainly helped also.

Eric, everyone, every method is worth listening to. That gives you choices and somewhere down the line you'll have a dog that will make you question what your doing. Then that light bulb in you head will come on and you can reach right into that "tool box".

 Quote: Bob Scott

Eric, everyone, every method is worth listening to. That gives you choices and somewhere down the line you'll have a dog that will make you question what your doing. Then that light bulb in you head will come on and you can reach right into that "tool box".

Well said. I believe you can even learn watching bad training, as long as you recognize what you are seeing.

 Quote: David Winners

 Quote: Bob Scott

The Steven R. Lindsay set of three is the best set of dog behavior/training books EVER...and I have shelves full of them.
Ditto on vol 3!
It doesn't mean that I'm not going to get "Dog Sense" though.

Sticker shock!

I know. I did what Bob did (in fact, on his suggestion)..... saying over MANY gift occasions that all I wanted were Leerburg gift certificates. They don't "expire" and LB even keeps track for you.

Don't wait until you have mostly-feral grankids to sell. :




ETA
The Lindsay books are cheap if you go by page- or word-count!

Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/05/2012 09:48 AM)
Edit reason: eta

I'm not an avid reader like many people here and can honestly say that I've never finished a dog training book yet. I've picked up a few but quickly find myself disagreeing with something simple and it loses credibility for me - kind of coming to the conclusion that they are one person's experience with dog's they've been exposed to.

There always seems to be the exceptions - different breeds, different traits, and the individuality of the trainers involved. What works well for one person could be a train wreck for another.

In fact, in my last Leerburg order, last year, I purchased Volume 111 (because it was so highly recommend) of the Applied Dog Behavior and Training Handbook (mind you "hand" book is not a term I would use for this volume of text ) but have yet to open it in fear of being exposed to older or more singular method biased details. Plus, I'm just not an avid recreational reader.

Eric, I like what you said about what David said about what Bob and Connie have often said.

 Quote: Eric Hultgren

I like what David's saying about taking some and leaving some for your tool box. Even though I'm the negative nancy at the moment, I still threw a few ideas into the tool kit with this book.

Instead of getting stuck, disagreeing on a singular point, it doesn't mean that there may not be value in other things being said further on. Hmmm...I think you guys have just given me a better way to approach these books.

I'm not picking up that "Handbook" any time soon though. This Bradshaw one sounds like a fun read though. Maybe I'll start with it with this more realistic approach to what I'm reading.

Great discussion guys. Good insight!!