Quote: Jay Jack

Connie- What do you think of the "reverse" version I am toying with? I never followed a straight BAT protocol, just tinkered with the parts that made sense. Seems like that way has really helped my dog trust my intervention. Is how I'm doing it sensible? Not trying to hijack the thread. Just wanting to learn.

One thing is that you are starting with a 100% controlled distraction, as in "For the issues that you're dealing with, I actually use a "reverse" version of it. ... As in... "I have the trigger approach me. I work her downstay as I have the trigger approach us. I TELL THEM TO STOP APPROACHING as I notice her reaching threshold. Then I HAVE THEM STAY and we keep working positions, or "look", etc.. until I see her relax at that distance, then I reward by ME TELLING THEM TO LEAVE. This process has the exact same effect in counter conditioning, and response reprogramming as BAT, with one important distinction. She sees me controlling the trigger."

Here's MHO:
Having the trigger under such tight control is a great tool, but it's not available to everyone (or even to most people).

"She sees me controlling the trigger" is not generally the case in real life.

Also, I still want the reactive dog focused on me .... not on the trigger.

I see some useful stuff here; don't get me wrong. But IMO, there's also some unnecessary complication. Also, straight simple desensitizing applies to almost all reactive-dog situations.

I know that what I do works if done with consistency and patience, it's very straightforward, and it does not require the reactive dog to pay attention to the trigger (which IMO is often the wrong way to go).

It sounds like it's working for you, and that's good! And I know others with fearful dogs have had success with BAT.

I personally prefer to eliminate having the dog pay attention to the trigger, and especially the dog deciding anything. I want it to be extremely clear from the get-go that I am in charge and that the dog has no more worries, no evaluating, no assessing to do. Just focus on me and we'll do well.

All JMO!

Is there a set protocol you use, or is it just "your" method? I would love to learn more about it. Simpler is always better!
And, I always take resources for granted. I own a martial arts gym, so I have a ton of open space and willing, controllable "decoys" for my dogs! I always just talk from my perspective, and I forget that my situation is in no way "normal".

 Quote: Jay Jack

Is there a set protocol you use, or is it just "your" method? I would love to learn more about it. Simpler is always better!

Definitely not "my" method.

To the O.P., I clicked on "Advanced Search" (upper right of screen), then used DESENSITIZING as my search term and expanded the date range to three years (it's set at one month).

These are a few of the links I got. There is some BAT discussion, positive and negative (QUOTE: Sitting still while the other dog moves toward him, gives him a lot of time to think about the other dog and become more and more tense.) But 90% of the discussion revolves around simpler desensitizing work plus strong pack leader assurance.

The gist for me is working with the dog, upbeat sessions with HV rewards, just outside her trigger range so she can focus on me instead of the trigger and let the trigger become mere background noise (desensitized to it). There are many ways to set this up, and there are lots more details about inserting myself between the trigger and the dog, starting the work in a completely distraction-free area to have a basis before taking it "on the road," teaching a simple focus command at home first, and much more, including success stories.

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24232&page=3

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=28694&page=2#312269

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24037&page=3#249885

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24232&page=2#251710

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24388&page=1#253391

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24541&page=1#255058

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=24741&page=1#257074

I like it simple too Jay. I think temperament is hard wired in a dog and BAT and anything that claims to "fix" that is wrong. I think we teach them how to behave, but their temperament doesnt change.

I'd rather teach my dog to pay attention to me and ignore the bogeyman so I can relax and enjoy my dog rather then spend every minute watching his body language in constantly changing situations. Attention to me and following what I trained them to do stays constant no matter what the situation. Does that make sense?

@steve: Thank you for that breakdown. You probably are correct that it is more than just her. In the house 2 of the dogs are mine and the other two belong to my roommate, so while my dogs have been trained well and know a "place" command the others unfortunately do not. Since the aggression started her interactions with the roommate's dogs have been banned and I've been focusing on her and Steve being together calmly. After reading the articles on this site about family pack structure, I really don't want her interacting with those dogs at all and have the focus mainly be on her interactions with Steve. He is very responsive and a calm, well-adjusted dog that I believe will be beneficial in her adjusting to this new structure I have put in their lives.

@Connie: Thank you for the links! I will definitely be using them to further her desensitization towards her triggers (animals). Though I had been using NILIF in training and daily life, since these incidents have started she has to work for everything from praise and affection to going through doors or getting out of her crate. Though it is a work in progress, it's good to hear that I've been on the right track. Although she may be reactive I am going to put the BAT idea on hold and just be constantly working her with pack structure, NILIF, and rock-solid obedience.

I'm posting again to tell you all about my beginning success with the groundwork program, strict NILIF and home life rules, and the e-collar! She spent the better part of a week in her crate for most of the day with walks on a constant heel 3x daily. She did finally earn the privilege of being out of the crate (growled at a dog twice and was put back in) and is now simply so happy to be out of the crate and with the pack. She has been reintroduced to two of the dogs again with positive, submissive responses. Although she is not allowed to play with them, she can coexist in the same room with them and show no signs of aggression. I'm continuing this desensitizing with these two dogs first until the 3rd (the one she fought with) is brought back in. I have tried to expose her to him in small increments but she shows obvious signs of nervousness and I think it might be a little too much for her at this point. We have started e-collar training and I just have one thing to say: WOW! I finally have a way to control her prey drive and she has become much more focused on me at all times. Even though it is early in the training, she is progressing quickly and positively and it makes me so proud to walk her in the park with distractions and have her listen to me more than yank on the leash with squirrels or react negatively to other dogs. She has begun to learn to ignore them and that they are not important in life (mainly the calmer ones, the hyper and crazy yappy ones still irk her). She does still want to chase the squirrels but upon going for them gets a COME command, a beep, and a "tickle" and it motivates her to listen to me. She gets more exercise now and is clearly a happier dog because of it. I am interested as to how to get her to play with the dogs she is more familiar with? Obviously supervised but is there anything in particular I should do? I don't plan on attempting this until we have a better bond of trust, at least a month or two. Thank you all so much for your help!