Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369904 - 11/28/2012 09:09 PM |
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Kory;
it sounds like you're getting a little frustrated, and that may be bleeding over into your heeling sessions with Marco. Just a thought here...I started working on the focus in my kitchen, doing a session of luring and free shaping similar to the one at the beginning of this clip.
http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/717/Keeping_Your_Puppy_Engaged_with_Michael_and_Cappy
I'm not saying to copy the routine or to do as many behaviors as ME does here. The point is to peak the engagement and work the wall and focused heeling in a way that is not overwhelming for Marco.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#369911 - 11/28/2012 10:03 PM |
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Kory;
it sounds like you're getting a little frustrated, and that may be bleeding over into your heeling sessions with Marco. Just a thought here...I started working on the focus in my kitchen, doing a session of luring and free shaping similar to the one at the beginning of this clip.
http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/717/Keeping_Your_Puppy_Engaged_with_Michael_and_Cappy
I'm not saying to copy the routine or to do as many behaviors as ME does here. The point is to peak the engagement and work the wall and focused heeling in a way that is not overwhelming for Marco.
Big ditto. For me, if either of us is getting frustrated, it's time to put that command away for a while and spend some time on stuff the dog knows and will be marked and rewarded for.
And yes, I'm on the bandwagon too of short sessions with zero distractions, in the house, always ending on a high note. You don't want this one thing to taint your training relationship.
JMO!
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369919 - 11/28/2012 10:49 PM |
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Kory: I also recommend Michael Ellis' focused heeling video. Also, I would take very small training steps and make sure he knows each one before progressing. I use the "mark" a piece of square wood and I have clicker trained my dogs to put their front feet on it. After we do this a bunch of times. I have them run to the mark, and get treated. (I do this so I am sure they know the cue "mark".)They love this. I then use the mark to bring my dogs into heel position. I clicker train them to put their front feet on the mark , I line myself up with the side of the wood of the mark, and I click and treat when they come into heel position, I do not say heel yet. After that I give that behavior a name. Now when I come along side the mark and say mark my dogs come up and put their feet on the mark (their front feet). Now we are standing in heel position. I do this for a while and then call them and name it Heel as they come up along side of my leg. After that, the next behavior I practice is leash pressure. All this is explained on Michael's video.
It has really helped my dogs to understand heel position. It might help you too! love sharon
Sharon Empson
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369922 - 11/28/2012 11:27 PM |
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Kory,
I agree with the responses that you have already received. I would just like to comment on your problem using the wall. This method is usually helpful, but some dogs feel too confined by it (like some dogs don't like the tunnel in agility). You might start a little further away from the wall until he starts to accept being close to it. Or, use a substitute for the wall. I like to use a "cyclone-type" fence instead, because it gives the dog a sense of openness with a physical presence that helps guide him into the correct position. A tennis court is a great option because you can heel for as long as you want (inside or outside the perimeter) without stopping to turn around. And, later, it is great for proofing with distraction when there are people playing tennis ... especially, if he like balls.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369930 - 11/29/2012 10:47 AM |
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Hey Kory, there's a lot more to focused heeling then what the final picture shows you. You're asking for a lot of different things at once from a dog.
With the crooked sits, I think he's just anticipating how you reward him. I know using your right hand was mentioned, but I can tell you some of the best heeling I've ever seen was created using food in a right hand. I think the problem comes from not creating the right position with luring/baiting him in the beginning and not having a clear mark/release when you let him come accross your body in front of you so being crooked becomes a part of your heeling. Its just kinda blurred for him,but not just from the direction he's moving. Watch some videos of Ivan or M.Ellis playing tug with heeling work. You'll see them release the dog to the right. The release.... Thats the key.
At this point with him, there's nothing wrong with talking to him while he's heeling. Encourage him to look. Don't keep repeating the heel command, but good, good, yeah,yeah. Use your voice.
If he's bothered by the wall, I would stay away from it and keep your hands away from his rear. I think thats creating a separate problem in your case, and isnt going to help.
Teaching him to come into heel position from anywhere is just luring or guiding and then rewarding right away in that position. You can have him sit, take two steps away from him, tell him foos then guide him with the leash or just lure him in with food. Thats all it really is. Then add different angles to it later. Have you taught him a finish from the front position yet?
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: steve strom ]
#369936 - 11/29/2012 02:22 PM |
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With the crooked sits, I think he's just anticipating how you reward him. I know using your right hand was mentioned, but I can tell you some of the best heeling I've ever seen was created using food in a right hand. I think the problem comes from not creating the right position with luring/baiting him in the beginning and not having a clear mark/release when you let him come accross your body in front of you so being crooked becomes a part of your heeling. Its just kinda blurred for him,but not just from the direction he's moving. Watch some videos of Ivan or M.Ellis playing tug with heeling work. You'll see them release the dog to the right. The release.... Thats the key.
This paragraph seems to lack some clarity Kory. Maybe even to the point of being incoherent and not helpful at all. When I say release, I mean a complete break in position for both of you. Very clear to your dog, but not something I mean that you should do. You would be better with consistantly rewarding from directly above in the correct position to build that expectation of the reward event where you want his head positioned.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369942 - 11/29/2012 05:08 PM |
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Since I started this topic I think I've made a bit of progress with the crookedness. I am still using my right hand to reward but I'm being very careful to give it directly over his head. That seems to have helped but sometimes I think I've made progress and then the next time I work on it he goes back, so we'll see. The focus is still a problem. If I just use food, he'll focus all day long, as long as I don't take a step. Once I move, he's looking where he's going. If I switch to the ball, he'll stay focused, or maybe I should say he's looking at the ball, I can walk however many steps I like, doesn't matter. However, he is also jumping up alot trying to get the ball and I don't really think that's teaching him to focus on me. He's just focused on the ball, which is proven, in my mind, by the fact that he doesn't do it with food.
This brings me to an idea. Yesterday I started teaching him the look command. If I get him doing this well, can I then translate that into the heel command?
By the way, I am getting frustrated, but when I do, I just stop working on heeling and do sits and downs which he does well to end it on a good note. Maybe I'm expecting him to perfect this too quickly. I do tend to lack patience.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369969 - 11/30/2012 09:39 AM |
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Don't go any farther...lure with the food to make that first step.
Use the food if that's what results in the best heeling. Later on, after he learns the heeling you want, you can go back and use the tug to polish the behavior.
If you stand there and he looks at you, then breaks on the first step, stop right there and just work on that first step, no matter how many reps it takes. Don't get discouraged; ME says it takes at least 30 reps for a dog to understand a new behavior, and Bellon says it's thousands before the dog really knows it. The truth is pbly somewhere in between, but it will take reps.
The reason most people use the tug and not a "look" is because, in the finished behavior, you want the dog staring at your profile and not in the eyes. That's why the fancy new modern vests have ball releases on the left shoulder or breast. After you get the dog focusing on you as you enter the heel, you can use tug to clean it up.
Sadie |
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369978 - 11/30/2012 05:16 PM |
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Thanks Duane. That's what I'll start working on tomorrow.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369988 - 11/30/2012 10:18 PM |
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Steve said
"Hey Kory, there's a lot more to focused heeling then what the final picture shows you. You're asking for a lot of different things at once from a dog".
This seems to be a key to how your doing things.
Break it all down into individual behaviors then chain them together.
Teach each behavior alone. Until one is solid in the dog's head don't try and put them together. Taught as separate behaviors the sit, sit with eye contact, first step, halt, etc will fall in place much easier then striving for all at once.
Good thoughts from Duane also.
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