 Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370318 - 12/07/2012 11:07 PM |
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Do you ever play tug with Ambi, Jodi ? I'm thinking basic retrieve training here Jodi, but if she likes Tug, then just leave the ball inside, and reteach retrieve with tug like it's a new thing again, and then reintroduce the ball in a few weeks.
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370319 - 12/07/2012 11:31 PM |
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Teaching a retrieve with a high level object, tug in this case, can be a problem because the dog already has what it wants. Toss it and it now belongs to the dog.
Teach the retrieve with back chaining, markers and the ball or some other object. Use the tug for reward. Of course you need a clean out with any retrieve but that's where the marker training comes in.
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#370382 - 12/10/2012 08:52 AM |
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Re-working on doing that very thing, trying to read through back articles, when the computer cooperates.
My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family. |
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370383 - 12/10/2012 08:59 AM |
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I don't play tug with her, and I think we maybe encountering the problem that Mr. Scott mentions and the ball is her high value object.
I did work with her yesterday, with also working on her staying while I threw the ball and then her retrieving (her stays have improved so much), she was focused and didn't balk once, as soon as I released her and we did long freestyle throws she went back to balking within a couple of tosses.
So I guess no freestyle for awhile. I have been really making her work with these tosses, long distance and uphill so I thought maybe it was exertion related but she started doing it on flat ground before hilly ground.
I figure thats probably a good indicator for me to focus on doing tosses that have some parameters. I would like to say she gets distracted by the smells in this yard, but I made a point of watching and the balk is run, get the ball, lay with the ball...
My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family. |
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370393 - 12/10/2012 01:44 PM |
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I think Duane kinda touched on it Jodi, but at the risk of contradicting everyone, I don't think this will be fixed with backchaining a retrieve. She needs motivation to come to you. You wont get that with teaching her to hold the object. Thats just going to create more conflict at this time.
I'd really put aside any strict ob and figure out a way to make her happy to come to you. Something more like recalls to you for her ball instead of throwing the ball way from you. You could keep her on a longline for guidance, but don't look for a whole lot of strict control, make it fun to come to you.
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370394 - 12/10/2012 02:54 PM |
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: steve strom ]
#370395 - 12/10/2012 04:07 PM |
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I think Duane kinda touched on it Jodi, but at the risk of contradicting everyone, I don't think this will be fixed with backchaining a retrieve. She needs motivation to come to you. You wont get that with teaching her to hold the object. Thats just going to create more conflict at this time.
I'd really put aside any strict ob and figure out a way to make her happy to come to you. Something more like recalls to you for her ball instead of throwing the ball way from you. You could keep her on a longline for guidance, but don't look for a whole lot of strict control, make it fun to come to you.
I get what you're saying.
" ... figure out a way to make her happy to come to you."
Returning to you to have the game end might be part of that, but also maybe shifting your focus to working on the recall (the kind of recall where the dog is thrilled to hear you call and comes racing to you), maybe, rather than focusing on returning the toy .....
I go all out to make the recall the dog's favorite thing to obey, starting with chase-me games and HV rewards.
Is this what you mean, Steve?
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#370398 - 12/10/2012 03:11 PM |
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Yeah, basically. I think if you want to keep including any part of retrieving at all, it would just be playful chasing on a long line focused on coming back. None of the obedience of a formal retrieve right now.
Even in a motivational retrieve, the hold creates tension for the dog. Thats not what you want with a dog that doesnt want to come back already.
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370399 - 12/10/2012 03:15 PM |
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And I don't think its possesivness either. I think its avoidance.
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Re: Amber balking-what to do?
[Re: Jodi Moen ]
#370400 - 12/10/2012 03:37 PM |
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I teach simple "fetch" with the release into my hand as the last (first, in a backchain) step, no hold, but I get you:
"None of the obedience of a formal retrieve right now."
.... as in, "first have the dog want more than anything to come to you." 
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