 Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371235 - 12/28/2012 12:42 AM |
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can you take a video and post on youtube? I can't help but it would be better shown than described imo. I'd like to see. He obviously isn't *really* trying to take the gun or else you would have stitches from being bitten.
Maybe he thinks he is a better shot than you lol.
You can put vids on youtube and make them private so only people you give the link to can view it.
Did I missed what kind of dog this is?
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371236 - 12/28/2012 12:54 AM |
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I'll try to get a video tomorrow. It may have to be from a surveillance cam if I can't find someone to film, but those have sound. I'll probably tie him up with a drag line and stand just out of his range though.
I should note that I said in an earlier post that if I bring out the gun, he's trotting around and potentially half-hearted trying to go for the gun. It's the EXACT same behavior he has when I pull out a very high value toy, or the bite pillow.
He's a GSD.
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371238 - 12/28/2012 02:21 AM |
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But, like I said, the breeder "desensitized" his pups to firearms with a starter pistol and treats. I think this is probably the cause of this issue. On one hand, it's better than having him cower in fear in the corner. Like someone else mentioned, if he's trying to take the gun, someone could end up dead due to an accident. Not good.
I don't know the exact method the breeder used, but when I was out there and he had 10 or so pups there, when he fired the starter pistol in the air, they all came running as fast as they could from 100 yards away and were jumping all over him.
This "acclimation" sounds more like drive building than desensitization. The desensitizing that I do (and which you will find described in threads here) requires that the dog be under control and gets redirected when the stimulus is encountered.
This could be the source of the problem, moreso than sharpness, and, if that's the case, may be fixable. I think I would seek info on how gundogs are trained (law enforcement or hunting methods).
Sadie |
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371244 - 12/28/2012 07:59 AM |
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I don't think at this point you're going to desensitize anything. You need more of a strong leave it command at this point, even more so if he's thinking he's going to go chase kids.
It kinda sounds like the way you've used the ecollar and maybe some of the other stuff has only built up frustration in him and its escalated to where you are now. That trotting around should have been stopped, I think this is an obedience issue now whether he's bothered by the noise or not.
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: steve strom ]
#371245 - 12/28/2012 08:52 AM |
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I would have someone else fire the gun from a distance, while you engaged the dog in some play. Then worked on heel sit. As the dog becomes more controlled move the gun closer.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: David C.Frost ]
#371268 - 12/28/2012 03:05 PM |
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Does anyone make a remote controlled blank firing device? I don't always have a helper around, and it would be useful to go put it a couple hundred yards away in the woods, and then move it closer over time. I don't know if this is going to accomplish much though, most of the time when he hears gunshots but doesn't see the person with the gun, he just ignores it. The other night was an anomaly, probably because it was less than 15 mins after he saw me firing, and then he heard the same sound again.
Before I do anything, I'm going to set up a meeting with the trainer to find the best course of action. I may also talk to a hunting dog trainer that my neighbor uses.
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371269 - 12/28/2012 03:18 PM |
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If it's not the sound of the gun, could it just be that he sees it as a "toy"...just like the ball he wants to grab from the kids? You have a fun toy, he wants to play with it (with you?)
What if you tried some exercises with the dog where you have an actual (non-lethal) toy in your hands--one of his balls or tugs? Put him in a sit. Click and reward. Then take out the toy. When he breaks the sit, correct him and put him back in a sit. Click and reward. Until he "gets" that sit means sit, regardless of what you are doing or what you have in your hands.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371270 - 12/28/2012 03:23 PM |
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Does anyone make a remote controlled blank firing device? I don't always have a helper around, and it would be useful to go put it a couple hundred yards away in the woods, and then move it closer over time. I don't know if this is going to accomplish much though, most of the time when he hears gunshots but doesn't see the person with the gun, he just ignores it.
If this is true, then you wouldn't need it a couple of hundred yards away. The idea of "desensitizing" is to progress at the dog's pace. Therefore, If he's not distracted at 100 meters, there is no need to work at that distance. The first step is to determine his "reactive zone", and that's where you start (or just outside of that, to be more precise). It may only take you five sessions to cover fifteen yards; some dogs may take twenty sessions. This is strictly an "at the individual dog's pace" exercise.
Likewise, if the person firing is what he's reacting to, THAT'S what you need to desensitize; not the gunshot by itself. If you desensitize the gunshot without including what he's reacting to, you're wasting your time and making life stressful for the dog.
Sadie |
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#371271 - 12/28/2012 03:25 PM |
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What if you tried some exercises with the dog where you have an actual (non-lethal) toy in your hands--one of his balls or tugs? Put him in a sit. Click and reward. Then take out the toy. When he breaks the sit, correct him and put him back in a sit. Click and reward. Until he "gets" that sit means sit, regardless of what you are doing or what you have in your hands.
That's what Steve and I were alluding to earlier. Aside from the gunshot specifically, some remedial OB work is definitely in order.
Sadie |
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Re: Advice on dog that wants to take gun from me
[Re: John Stopps ]
#371275 - 12/28/2012 04:43 PM |
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I think its probably related to personnal protection work John. Maybe a little too much aggitation, whip cracking, never letting him cool down enough? When you tried the ecollar to stop it, you never actually stopped anything.
I just think the first thing is to make him stop it. Set him up and let him know he can't touch the gun. Period. Since for the most part its when he see's it, I don't think you need to fire it in the beginning. Teach him to control himself, then think about the desensitizing.
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