Connie Sutherland wrote 01/14/2013 02:46 PM Re: Counter or contra conditioning? [Re: Mike Arnold ] #372048 - 01/14/2013 02:46 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Mike Arnold I guess I'd be concerned that the timing of a treat, for example, didn't reward the unwanted behavior. I understand what you mean. Like when someone posts "when he's like that, he can't be distracted by a treat; he's just zoned in on {whatever}" ...... but that's not at all what desensitizing and counterconditioning are about. When I work on desensitizing (and counterconditioning), working outside the trigger zone is what I always stress .... where there is no unwanted reactive behavior to accidentally reward. If there was unwanted reactive behavior to accidentally reward, that would mean I was too close, too fast ..... too something.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/14/2013 02:50 PM Re: Counter or contra conditioning? [Re: Mike Arnold ] #372049 - 01/14/2013 02:50 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Bryan Simms  Quote: Mike Arnold I guess I'd be concerned that the timing of a treat, for example, didn't reward the unwanted behavior. Not elegantly expressed. My take on it, and I imagine others with more experience will have better advice, is that you want to work just before this threshold so you're not actually seeing the unwanted behavior. If your dog is scared of a bike at 10 feet and not at 11 feet, then you start at 11 feet and do something fun like obedience/marker train, play, eat lunch, etc. Move from 11 feet to 10 1/2, then 10, etc. If you find that at 8 feet you get that negative reaction then you should still be at 9 feet. Back up to the distance that you just stop getting the reaction and work from there. It seems like the real key here is being able to read your dog. Finding that they won't take food is a sure sign of stress but reading their body language is really vital too. Mine gets very alert and looks around very actively when she passes that stress threshold. When I see this I know we are pushing the envelope too far. Oh, we were typing/posting together. Yes. Exactly!
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Bryan Simms wrote 01/14/2013 02:56 PM Re: Counter or contra conditioning? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #372050 - 01/14/2013 02:56 PM
Bryan Simms Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2012 Posts: 94 Loc: Charlotte, NC Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland Oh, we were typing/posting together. Yes. Exactly! You should have seen the smile on my face when I read your post and it so closely matched what I was saying I feel like I'm still learning all this stuff so to see the same response from someone I respect so much is delightful
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Mike Arnold wrote 01/14/2013 02:58 PM Re: Counter or contra conditioning? [Re: Bryan Simms ] #372051 - 01/14/2013 02:58 PM
Mike Arnold Webboard User Reg: 07-09-2004 Posts: 1344 Loc: CNY Offline	Hey Bryan, I understand. I was thinking or typing out loud, and for sure your mentioning of 'knowing' your dog is crucial. Timing is everything. When I work with a dog who has an issue, what ever the issue, it seems to me that anticipation has a lot to do with long term success. Its like reading about stuff that you learned and just do now, forgetting that you had learned it, if that makes any sense. Anyway, thank you. Mike A. "I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin." Hondo, played by John Wayne
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