The puppy in question was found on the road. He was crawling with fleas and engorged ticks. He was thin, very young and obviously distressed. I carried him door to door through the entire neighborhood inquiring who might be his owner. Should I have then put him back in the street to wait for a car to end his short life and walked away? Is a shelter already overloaded with unwanted dogs the only “qualified “way to show care to a lost or abandoned animal?

Is asking a re-homing fee wrong? There are expenses involved in animal care. And if offered free, a dog is often taken home by someone unwilling to invest in a pet. I asked the same amount that other un-papered German shepherd puppies are selling for in our area. To my knowledge a shelter or rescue asks a fee for an animal to help to with care/medical and to ensure a better home. I volunteered at two rescues in the area for a time in the past and would even though they were no kill I would never consider them for finding great homes. You have no knowledge of what animals I have cared for, what care they have needed, what situations they came from, or what problems they have had. You don’t know the people they went on to live with – on a handful of posts, a 3 minute phone call, and a few pm’s you base all your assumptions.

I was totally cooperative with the people from Leerburg who tried to arrange transport for this pup. I do in fact appreciate the effort that was put forth to arrange for this puppy to get a good and lasting home. But now I find myself sorry to have even mentioned it on the forum. I see that because I did not have a credit card or a PayPal account of my own, I am now ridiculed and labeled as an “uncooperative foster” and a thief. Is it a law that to care for animals in need one must have a credit card?

BTW I now learn 5 days later that people say it is because I would not give a receipt. I NEVER said I would not give one. I told what has been my custom in the past and at that was told that it was better not to pursue things further. End of conversation.

It is unlikely that I will participate or encourage anyone else to participate in your forums again; as it seems that you are very exclusive and judgmental about people that don’t do things in a certain way that you judge to be “right”. I doubt that this puppy or the many other animals I have worked with over the years care whether I have a credit card or not.
I do want to thank a few of you for your helpful comments over the years-Connie and Barbara come to mind the most. I would not have known of Marker Training or a lot of other dog related things had it not been for my finding of Leerburg. Zuki, Keiko, Bunny, Quisquis, and all the other animals and dogs I come in contact with thank Leerburg for that.

self delete

Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/13/2013 11:00 PM)
Edit reason: self delete

Elizabeth;

I was going to allow you to remain anonymous to this board, outside of a small handful of members close to this situation. I will go ahead and state the facts that I know, for the benefit of the entire forum.

Within a few hours of our initial inquiry, you responded via pm to one of the group. You subsequently agreed to allow that member to quote that pm to the rest of the group, and it was copy/pasted to the rest of us. In that pm you refused our offer to adopt. You stated numerous reasons why you wouldn't allow me to adopt. You persoanlly referred to me as "whatever his name is", although my first and last name were all over your initial posts about the puppy in question.

It wasn't until your concerns were addressed point by point that you relented, and you stated that the "rehoming fee" was $250. At that point, it was only 7 days since you found the puppy, and you had not taken him to the vet yet. There is no way that you could have spent even a small fraction of that on care for the pup.

You said in your post here that $250 is the typical rehoming fee in your area. I viewed many ads for rehoming young GSD puppies in your area on Craigslist, and the average fee was $100.

When you did relent, you were told that payment would only be made via a Paypal account in your name AND that a written release of rights and claims to the puppy would be necessary, in part because we intended to drive the pup across state lines. You were clearly informed that a simple receipt would not be sufficient. You did not contact us again, although several pms were sent to you.

More than 60 hours later, at the eleventh hour, less than three hours before our first transport relay leg was scheduled to depart, you finally answered some phone messages left at the only phone numbers available to me; those posted on the website of the "charitable organization" run by your family. I specifically asked if you would be able to provide transfer-of-ownership documents, or a release of all future claims and rights to the puppy. You very clearly and coherently stated to me that it was not your custom to provide that documentation in "this type of transaction".

Later that day, 2/8/2013, you finally posted an ad on Craigslist, stating that yould accept a reasonable offer in lieu of the $250 rehoming fee.

Those are the facts as we know them.



Here is my opinion:

You could not provide transfer-of-ownership docoments, because ownership was not yours to give; ownership was never transferred to you, as it would be to a reputable rescue or shelter. In fact, the legality of this is questionable.

$250-$400 is the typical fee of a legitimate rescue organization, used for admin costs, and to reimburse their fosters for MONTHS of care. More often than not, these fosters have expended more than they are ever reimbursed.

You stated publicly on your original thread that part of your rehoming fee was saved to fund future rescues. You stated privately to a member of our group that you are saving for another trip to Guatemala. I sense a potential conflict of interest.

It was revealed during this fiasco that you are only 22 years old. That being the case, you have clearly overstated, publicly on this forum, your experience with dogs and your experience rescuing animals.

My dealings with you do not indicate that you represent yourself as reputable or charitable.

I just wanted to say that Duane is 100% telling the facts as we know them. All along, the details were up front and above board on this small group's end.

Everything was done to ensure we acted in the best interest of this pup, and its future.
The actions that were taken by this group were nothing but honest and forthright.

Elizabeth, it is a normal and even customary to use a pay pal account for transferring funds for payment.
If you truly wanted to get this pup to a good home, there was no reason to deny signing or agreeing to a simple transfer of rights etc. the very fact that you refused this action is completely questionable.

Lastly, the fact that you had this pup for such a short period of time, had told us, it had yet to see a vet, but then want $250 is outrageous to me, considering he length of time you had said you had this pup.

Your story here, is not consistent with the facts that were given to this group.

I am puzzled some what about the altruistic intentions toward animal ‘rescue’ that involves negotiation of something as vulgar as financial receipt, as to whether or not an animal that is lost, terrified and suffering, has to rely on money being transferred via any type of account so it may be saved.

If I found a stray dog suffering in the way described in this circumstance, the kids and I would find the damn money, put the dogs medical needs at the head of the list of requirements, and if necessary, house him in the warm, dry heated kennel that I have in the summer house that Harry used toward the end of his short life, and in the mean time, find a loving, secure and forever home for the poor bloody hapless creature who would be depending on a human putting it’s needs ahead of the financial requirements of the human that ‘found’ it.

You don’t put a price on the welfare of an animal, you do what’s needed, and you do it with a glad heart.

And there is a universe of difference between legitimate rescues and ‘finding’ a stray on the road, specifically in the area of reimbursement.

Even some of the assumed reputable rescues have other agendas that have nothing to do with the best interest of the dog, it is down to the individual animal LOVER to do the right thing.

I would like to add, in case anyone is wondering about this detail, that in the end, we agreed we would make payment to the Paypal acct of the organization that Elizabeth is a member of. The sticking point was her unwillingness to provide documentation.

We insisted on Paypal because of the security and protections from fraud that it provides. None of us wanted to give credit card info nor a personal check to Elizabeth.

Was the puppy scanned for a microchip?

 Quote: Cheryl Gee

Was the puppy scanned for a microchip?

I doubt it. At the time of my last contact with Elizabeth, the puppy had not even seen a vet.




The facts as stated above are the facts as I know them too, and I was in the PM thread from the first contact.

My opinion: I was too upset to formulate it last night and remain so today. I posted and deleted three times before walking away last night.

The facts (for me) speak for themselves: The $250 that was asked was raised; the long trip was arranged with several wonderful forum members volunteering time and gas money. The process halted with Elizabeth's stating "her custom" and that her "custom" did not include the written documentation of release we needed.

I consider it glaring that her post last night says "I told what has been my custom in the past" but not what that custom was, even though it was clearly the reason for the halt, after so many hours of struggle on the part of so many people.

This has been a real heartache. and the worst part is that this puppy (as of yesterday's Craigslist) still had no new home.

 Quote: tracey holden

I am puzzled some what about the altruistic intentions toward animal ‘rescue’ that involves negotiation of something as vulgar as financial receipt, as to whether or not an animal that is lost, terrified and suffering, has to rely on money being transferred via any type of account so it may be saved.

If I found a stray dog suffering in the way described in this circumstance, the kids and I would find the damn money, put the dogs medical needs at the head of the list of requirements, and if necessary, house him in the warm, dry heated kennel that I have in the summer house that Harry used toward the end of his short life, and in the mean time, find a loving, secure and forever home for the poor bloody hapless creature who would be depending on a human putting it’s needs ahead of the financial requirements of the human that ‘found’ it.

You don’t put a price on the welfare of an animal, you do what’s needed, and you do it with a glad heart.

And there is a universe of difference between legitimate rescues and ‘finding’ a stray on the road, specifically in the area of reimbursement.

Even some of the assumed reputable rescues have other agendas that have nothing to do with the best interest of the dog, it is down to the individual animal LOVER to do the right thing.

Very well said Tracey. I really hope this pup can find a home and be happy soon. It sucks when people get in the way of a dog's well being.

 Quote: Lee_Reicheld

.... I really hope this pup can find a home and be happy soon.

This is the important part.

This puppy, described as high-drive, and "firmly corrected" for always following after the human, needs the right home.

We really really tried.