steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006
Posts: 4203
Loc:
Offline
This quote is much clearer then what I posted, making the point I was trying to. Its from Greg Doud.
Quote:
Teaching a lift off is not to teach the dog to willingly give up an item as it's original design is to actually teach him to keep fighting to keep it. It's intent is to build possession and is a drive building tool. It's not supposed to teach a "willing" release at all. It's a huge part of my training and when I do this I verbally encourage my dog to keep fighting for it. My intent with a puppy or young dog is to build a beast in bite drive and this is one way I do it.
A compliant release should be taught in prey with the handler. For example, trade him the bite item for food, for another toy, or to get the same bite item immediately back again. It's a prey out and the dog should remain in prey drive when told to release.
An aggression release is totally different and has to be taught in the context of fighting a decoy.
And, I also teach a third release when I just want the dog to give up something and not go into prey drive or aggression. It's a subordinate release. That can only be done when he has mastered a prey out and it's never introduced in a formal training session. It's a release where he doesn't expect a prey item in return and must let go because I command him to do so. The dog is not expected to remain in drive for letting go and can go out of drive in this context. I use a totally different word for this release than the prey or aggression release.
christy mascari Webboard User Reg: 11-12-2012
Posts: 178
Loc: midwest
Offline
This is an advanced correction I feel should only be practiced by a seasoned trainer who has an established relationship with the dog.
If I saw the average dog owner initiate this correction with bad timing for the wrong reason...I would consider it abuse. If I saw you execute the same correction, expertly done with confidence, I would probably be impressed with your handling skills and never even consider abuse.
It's context, relativity, and very subjective.
My knee jerk reaction to your OP was-not the best correction for a puppy.
Anne Jones Webboard User Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline
Quote: steve strom
This quote is much clearer then what I posted, making the point I was trying to. Its from Greg Doud.
Quote:
Teaching a lift off is not to teach the dog to willingly give up an item as it's original design is to actually teach him to keep fighting to keep it. It's intent is to build possession and is a drive building tool. It's not supposed to teach a "willing" release at all. It's a huge part of my training and when I do this I verbally encourage my dog to keep fighting for it. My intent with a puppy or young dog is to build a beast in bite drive and this is one way I do it.
A compliant release should be taught in prey with the handler. For example, trade him the bite item for food, for another toy, or to get the same bite item immediately back again. It's a prey out and the dog should remain in prey drive when told to release.
An aggression release is totally different and has to be taught in the context of fighting a decoy.
And, I also teach a third release when I just want the dog to give up something and not go into prey drive or aggression. It's a subordinate release. That can only be done when he has mastered a prey out and it's never introduced in a formal training session. It's a release where he doesn't expect a prey item in return and must let go because I command him to do so. The dog is not expected to remain in drive for letting go and can go out of drive in this context. I use a totally different word for this release than the prey or aggression release.
This is exactly the way that I was mentored to use the choke-off for outs. Steve you saved me, too, a ton of time trying how to figure out exactly how to explain this.
SamanthaTopper Webboard User Reg: 03-24-2011
Posts: 779
Loc: Indianapolis
Offline
I've used the choke off on ONE 6 month old puppy and I've used it on adult dogs several times under the right conditions.
All of the times I've used it was on dogs that either had something very dangerous in their mouth or they were attempting to attack another animal.
Would I use it on a pup under 6 months? Yes, if it meant saving his life.
I agree with what Steve has posted here. It's great information.
I disagree that it's painless, though. Anything choking you hard enough to cut off your air hurts like a bitch. Some dogs are tough enough to not let the pain bother them.
Steve's quote from Greg Doud is spot on!
The problem I'm reading in some of these post is knowing the difference between a lift off and a choke off. TOTALLY different actions and uses but both need to be uses with conviction and calmness or the dog will feed off your excitement/anger.
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005
Posts: 31571
Loc: North-Central coast of California
Offline
Quote: Bob Scott
Steve's quote from Greg Doud is spot on!
The problem I'm reading in some of these post is knowing the difference between a lift off and a choke off. TOTALLY different actions and uses but both need to be uses with conviction and calmness or the dog will feed off your excitement/anger.
tracey holden Webboard User Reg: 07-17-2010
Posts: 1442
Loc: UK
Offline
Quote: Connie Sutherland
Quote: Bob Scott
Steve's quote from Greg Doud is spot on!
The problem I'm reading in some of these post is knowing the difference between a lift off and a choke off. TOTALLY different actions and uses but both need to be uses with conviction and calmness or the dog will feed off your excitement/anger.
I just want to add to this, that when I tried to get the dogs apart by twisting the collar, it wasn't a thought out process, it was a panicked reaction to a scary and never-before-experienced situation.
It didn't work for me, but I can see the logic of an experienced and knowledgeable handler using the method.
Cathy Goessman Webboard User Reg: 12-03-2007
Posts: 1231
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Offline
Twisting a collar doesn't really choke most dogs that well. Their necks are strong. My parents Boxer could not be taken off another dog by twisting the collar but a choke chain worked.
I saw a lot of dog handlers have to choke their dogs to get them to "out". Mostly off of plastic bottles or other fun trash the dogs would snatch up.
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Re: Choking a puppy?
Top
Previous Topic
Index
Next Topic
.jpg)
