VC, you said what I was trying to get it so thanks. Personally I want my dog to work out of drive, not fear.

Ann,
Are you talking about training the send out exercise in SchH here? I'm not sure here because of the wording......

Melissa, what you do is start the exercise close to the "point" where you place the toy reward. (within sight)


The dog sees the ball for a long time before I start backing up to a point where he can't see it right off. You also have to be spot on in your direction of the dog, so there is trust that the ball will always be where you point.


Then you just back it up over time. As I do that, I try to be strategic in the ball placement. I find spots where you can't see the ball from so many feet away, but you can as you get close to it.

I don't hide the ball.


Is that a better picture?

I'm honestly not so worried about searching behavior, because that happens at the end of the road. He knows it is at the border somewhere along a straight line, he just needs to run to the border and get it.


And by that time he is way far away from the point you'd down him anyway. The searching behavior comes at the end of the run, the down comes before that in a trial.

This isn't my genious, by the way, I stole it from Lee Baragona.

Crystal, Robert. Thanks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So how do you maintain a snappy platz on the send out? For my dog, platz always means the ball is coming from me, and I get a very nice drop down platz. Since the send out is primarily a release from a position for the reward, and the platz is inhibation in drive for the reward, is there anything special that I have to prep my dog for to make this transition, aside from proofing?

I would love for my dog to eventually think 'voran'= the ball is by the border, 'platz' in the send out= the ball is coming from me. That way I get 100% drive in all components of the exercise. Unrealistic?

I cannot 'alarm platz' this dog, and maintain drive, so I need alternatives! Thanks!

As a dog training goes you cant train every dog the same. Ive trained a send out a few different ways. Ive trained a dog to do a send out anywhere not just on a sch. field and Ive trained them to do it just on a sch field. If you want a send out for the sch. field and thats all you need I think its best to send them to a border or the end of a field, to a fence or a goal post, football or soccer wichever. One thing you might want to try on your dog if you are afraid of squashing the drive with an "alarm" down is to teach the down as a breif interuption on its way to the reward. You can do this by putiing the reward at the end of the field and starting close where the dog can see it and put a long line on the dog. Halfway to the reward give the down and use the long line.Then release the dog so it can go get the reward.The dog should already be conditioned to this type of thing through playing with random sits and downs and throwing the toy and the dog maintaining its position then being released to go get it.Back to the sendout, once youve established that its an interuption on the way to the reward you can build it from there.Once youve increased the distance to something you cant control with the long line, and the dog is reliable, then youll need to run to the dog after it downs and either release them or reward them yourself.Depending of how you read the dog wich way you think is best to reward. As always you cant over do it or the dog anticipates and starts to go out slow.

I think a better way may be to try this, it is a smart way to get the down and keep the drive HIGH.

Once you have a reliable long distance sendout to the far border (without the dog seeing you put the ball out) you should NOT put the ball out.

Send the dog, tell him to down (I doubt he will), and then LET HIM run to the fence if it wants to. When he doesn't find the ball, and gets frustrated after searching a moment, you should tell him to down again (naturally you want to do this somewhat closer to the end of the field than a normal, full length sendout). This time, when he does down, you should throw the ball to him. (behind him, over his head is best if you don't throw like a girl LOL) After a while, the dog learns a discrimination that if there is no "platz" command, the ball will be at the end at the border, but if he does hear platz, he might as well go down cuz that means there is no ball out there - it's going to come from the handler.


You'll see where you have some work ahead of you to get the dog to the point where the light bulb goes on, so be patient. Making sure you have a pretty good platz outside of this excercis is a damn good idea as well.

Robert,
Thanks, again. I had something like that in mind, but now I feel like I've got a definite teaching plan. One slight modification I may try, tho. I anticipate that she may start to slow down in the send out after I start with the platz-throw-the-ball-like-a-girl thing (HOW did you KNOW <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), so I may plant a bite pillow on the border, so the exercise is not just a retrieve, now that you have solved the searching problem. That way the exercise is all high prey: biting, chasing (the ball), and fighting (as a reward). And the anticipation of not knowing what is coming will keep the drive at the levels I want (I hope). You're right tho, this will be a bit of a project.

David, thanks for the suggestions, but with this particular dog, everything has to be done in 100% drive, she is just that soft. She pattern trains very easily, which is good and bad. And, to top it off, when she is dragging a line, she runs crooked! :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I don't understand what you're saying, but as long as YOU have a clear plan. LOL

Interesting...I started this thread in May <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Will,
Yes, this is the Sch sendout I am teaching.

John,
I've also tried several different direction targets, but unless I set a pattern (ie north, then south) the dog just doesn't "get it" and starts searching for my target.

For a target I use a walmart 4ft hanging-plant pole (with the curve on the end) with the kong hanging at about dog-head high. The dog runs straight through without slowing down to grab the toy.

I've done distances such that the dog (or at least *I*) could not see whether there was a toy hanging from the pole. The dog runs fast to the target, or downs quickly on platz (knowing on that command the toy comes from me).

What I've NOT done is what Robt suggested: always put the target at a boundary of sorts (ie fence, bush, building, etc). Which is probably why my dog always looks for that pole, or not seeing it, runs to the last position she last saw it, or starts casting.

I'll now use the field boundaries, rather than just sticking the pole out in the middle somewhere...

Thanks!