no cathy , i'm up here in the great white north .

when i approach people that i see up on the mountain ( private property ) i do so purely from a conversational aspect . like i said , someone further down the line has already sold them a ticket to get up there , so without more backstory , i can't assume they have some malicious motive to bring their dog along , or duped someone to gain access .

i think more often than not , they certainly don't advertise the fact they have a dog with them , they don't ask if they can bring their dog up the mountain , and they don't exactly make it
easy for the lift attendant to see that they have a dog . yet when discovered they will tell you that it is a " therapy dog ".

i'm genuinely interested in what their dog can do for them . i don't treat it like a bust . we have their money , i tell them why we don't allow dogs in the alpine , they usually understand and go on their way .

Ian, even if Canada has different laws concerning service dogs, if you're approaching someone and asking them a bunch of questions, it's at best mildly irritating. At worst, it can induce medical emergencies for people with serious health issues. The tone of your post about how it's 'mostly bs' sounds like you're grilling these folks and judging them.

Like I said - if you think someone's breaking the law, report them. A description of the person, their dog, and their vehicle if you can manage it is helpful to the authorities. If you're engaging people so that you can satisfy curiosity because there's 'nothing you can do' once they're that far from the park authorities - STOP. Respect their right to privacy. You wouldn't walk up to someone in a wheelchair and ask them why they need it, where they got it, how much they paid for it, and then have the opinion that they probably don't need it anyway, that they're just using it because they're lazy or like the closer parking spots at the mall.

hey sam , thanks for the lecture , maybe i can clear some things up for you .

obviously you've misread the " tone " of my post .

i don't work in a public park . i work at a mountain resort which operates on private property and encompasses some high alpine terrain that includes fairly sensitive ecosystems . in this setting , i am the representative of the company that operates on the mountain . in other words , i am the authority responsible for the well being of our environment .

i've worked in customer service for over 30 years and i know how to approach persons in a wide variety of scenarios , from " how is your day ? " to " we are unable to locate your child " to " your companion may not survive " . i have a great deal of experience reading diverse situations and acting accordingly . i don't " grill " people or judge them . i size up situations and deal with them in an efficient manner , hopefully to the satisfaction of all parties involved .

i approach them as a dog lover first , because we obviously share that passion , and proceed accordingly . if someone has a dog that shouldn't be there , but the dog is contained , well behaved and not causing any harm to the environment or ruining someone elses' day , then things are going to go well . on the other hand , if someone has snuck their dog up the mountain and the dog is roaring around tearing up the turf and terrorizing the local wildlife , then that person is going to be politely asked to take their dog and leave the premises . that has happened very rarely , and in the most recent incident that person made no claims as to their dogs status as a service or therapy dog .

the one time that i can remember a legitimate therapy dog on the mountain , we were notified that the woman was coming up the mountain with her dog . i went to meet her , and she was quite happy to engage me and tell me how much of a difference the dog makes in her life .

i don't live in NYC where people are trying to get their dogs where they are not lawfully permitted . i live in a predominantly tourism based community where sometimes our clients think they should be able to do whatever they want , wherever they want .

I didn't get the sense that Ian was "grilling" people about their disabilities, as far as I can see Ian would have to get some more information from the person. What if something happens to the client? If they really do have a disability they should be forthcoming with that information and not have a problem with an employee asking them some questions.

Ian, do we have the same laws here in Canada regarding "service dogs"?

This is sooo interesting! I'm learning a lot.

Based on what I'm reading, MHO is, "What's wrong with permitting Service AND Therapy dogs?". Why shouldn't they be required to wear a patch or badge with their state-issued unique ID no, certifying to the rest of the community that they have been properly trained and accredited. You can't just park in a handicapped spot because you have a wheelchair; you must go to the proper department within your state's governmental infrastructure and certify/justify the need for a handicapped permit. Sure, people use fake tags, but they do so realizing that they are breaking the law, and that's a risk they're willing to take. The average law-abiding citizen who's just trying to pull one over will be deterred.

Once again, the conflict in the article could easily be resolved if a little common sense were applied.

ETA: Therapy dogs that are owner-trained would be doing so at the instruction of their therapist, so a simple prescription from the accredited/certified therapist would be all the certification one would need to get a permit for his/her therapy dog. It's not that complicated.

Edited by Duane Hull (08/09/2013 11:51 AM)
Edit reason: eta

honestly , i don't even know . . . in any case , if someone were to tell me their dog is a therapy dog or a service dog , and the dog appears to be doing his job , is well behaved , and not a nuisance to those around him , i'm probably going to accept that persons word and let it slide .

when i am in a position to do what is right for the environment or the safety of the people i'm around , whether i'm being paid or not , i'll try to do my best .

unfortunately , sometimes someones' feelings might get hurt no matter what you try , but if you have their best interest in mind . . .

with respect to the service dog thing , my personal approach is to have a dog that is well behaved enough that he will be well received in any environment/situation that i feel comfortable taking him into . it doesn't matter to me whether my dog is wearing his vest or not , there are things he must be able to do if he wants to be in my company throughout the day .

sometimes it is not appropriate to bring the dog into a scene for whatever reason . for instance , i know my dogs have been welcome in any of the food service outlets on the mountain but i don't take him there when the public are around because not every one is comfortable having a dog in a place where food is being prepared and served .
our fleet maintenance manager doesn't like to see the dogs in his shop . even though the mechanics love to see them , the manager is rightly concerned that the dogs could get into liquids and substances that could be harmful to them . he gave me that information and i respect him for it and have complied , even though i can keep my dog on a close heel with a lead attached .
i was once admiring a bird on the side of a ( no dogs ) trail with my young son some years ago . a trail runner with an unruly golden retriever came by , and the dog took off after the bird . before that , i used to run my dog there . i don't anymore .

Around my place, Seeing eye dogs are permitted any where and that is it. A service dog that help pull a wheelchair or any other type or service dog has no access to places where pet dogs are not permitted.

Some school are exceptions.

FWIW, Ian, the maintenance manager has to be concerned with more than just whether or not the dog is under control. I work in a petroleum lab, and many of my coworkers would love for me to bring Sadie there. However, there are frequently breaks and spills on our floor. They are barely heeded, usually getting casually wiped up with a paper towel, and not always thoroughly. Just as with a hospital, I would never take my shoes off in there, much less allow my dog to walk unshod in there. Sometimes oil inadvertently gets sprayed amiss due to a failed container or handler error. Sometimes equipment fails and there are associated hazards.

The maintenance shop has similar hazards, and you have to worry about the personnel first. Visitors only increase those risks.

duane , i think the incident that might have tipped the scales was when one of the other dogs ran into the shop and surprised a mechanic who was working under one of the snowcats . he bumped his head when he was startled by the dog coming in for a little looksee .

Gotcha, Ian. There are many reasons why it's not appropriate to allow animals just anywhere.