Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381928 - 08/18/2013 04:20 PM |
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And who knows ... he may well know something that just isn't public knowledge yet.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381932 - 08/18/2013 05:39 PM |
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Cheri, what kibbles are better than Canidae? I know Orijen is supposed to be one but I've never been able to find it. My understanding is Innova is not as good as it once was.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381933 - 08/18/2013 06:06 PM |
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It would depend on which recipe you were looking at.
Their regular kibble, for example, is a good kibble, maybe a 4 out of 5 "star" kibble, with some drawbacks. Their grain-splitting is something I'm not a big fan of, as grain fractions move the grain lower on the ingredient list, masking its true order by proportion. (For example, they list brown rice, white rice, rice bran, peas, potatoes, oatmeal, and cracked pearled barley. Not only is that quite a bit of grain, plus white potato, a high-glycemic-index and low-nutrition starch, but I strongly suspect that the three rice ingredients, if combined, would move rice up past one of the meat meals.)
It's far from a poor product, though, IMO. Three named meat meals in the top three spots pretty much make it a good product right there. (Think of the foods that have three corn fractions in the top three spots.)
And its grain-free pure version is probably a 5 out of 5 star food. Not so much for being grain-free, but also for making the starchy carb needed to extrude kibble a nutritious ingredient instead of something like white potato and tapioca. (They use sweet potato.)
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381934 - 08/18/2013 06:07 PM |
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I have to admit all of that is Greek to me. I don't cook, don't know much about nutrition I'm afraid. That's one reason I've never seriously looked into raw. I barely have enough time to make for training and playing with my dogs let alone learn enough about it to do it. It's just easier for me to know what a good kibble is and feed it.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381936 - 08/18/2013 06:14 PM |
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I have to admit all of that is Greek to me. I don't cook, don't know much about nutrition I'm afraid. That's one reason I've never seriously looked into raw. I barely have enough time to make for training and playing with my dogs let alone learn enough about it to do it. It's just easier for me to know what a good kibble is and feed it.
Well, Canidae is a good kibble. The regular recipe is high in grain, but it's still a good kibble, IMO.
Ingredient lists are crucial. You want to see named meat meal and maybe a named meat in the top spots. When you see this, you're on the right track.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381937 - 08/18/2013 06:18 PM |
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Well, I did know that much I guess. I'm just trying to decide what to switch to if in fact Canidae is going to change in a bad way.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381938 - 08/18/2013 06:33 PM |
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If that happens, you can always see what you have available locally and post links to the ingredient lists. I would be happy to help you make a "short list." I know other here would, too.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381955 - 08/18/2013 10:24 PM |
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I have to admit all of that is Greek to me.
Kory, go through this website if you have time: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com
It goes through different foods and breaks down each ingredient into the pros and cons, and then rates the food. For example, I feed my dog Merrick, and here is their ingredient break down:
"The first ingredient in this dog food is beef. Although it’s a quality item, raw beef contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.
After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.
The second ingredient is pork meal. Pork meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh pork.
The third ingredient is barley. Barley is a starchy carbohydrate supplying fiber and other healthy nutrients. Unlike grains with a higher glycemic index, barley can help support more stable blood sugar levels.
The fourth ingredient includes salmon meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate.
Fish meal is typically obtained from the “clean, dried, ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish and fish cuttings” of commercial fish operations.1
We are pleased to note that, unlike many fish meals, this particular item appears2 to be ethoxyquin-free.
The fifth ingredient mentions peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.
However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.
The sixth ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.
The seventh ingredient is sweet potato. Sweet potatoes are a gluten-free source of complex carbohydrates in a dog food. They are naturally rich in dietary fiber and beta carotene.
The eighth ingredient is pork fat, a product from rendering pig meat.
Commonly known as lard, pork fat can add significant flavor to any dog food. And it can be high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life.
Although it may not sound very appetizing, pork fat (in moderate amounts) is actually an acceptable pet food ingredient.
The ninth ingredient is whole oats. Oats are rich in B-vitamins, minerals and dietary fiber.
From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.
But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.
With five notable exceptions…
First, we find pea protein, what remains of a pea after removing the starchy part of the vegetable.
Even though it contains over 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.
And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.
Next, we find flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.
Thirdly, salmon oil is naturally rich in the prized EPA and DHA type of omega-3 fatty acids. These two high quality fats boast the highest bio-availability to dogs and humans.
Depending on its level of freshness and purity, salmon oil should be considered a commendable addition.
Next, we note the use of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.
And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.
The Bottom Line
Judging by its ingredients alone, Merrick Classic appears to be an above average dry dog food.
But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.
The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 34%, a fat level of 17% and estimated carbohydrates of about 41%.
As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 33% and a mean fat level of 16%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 43% for the overall product line.
And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 50%.
Above-average protein. Near-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.
Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the peas and pea protein, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a significant amount of meat.
Bottom line?
Merrick Classic is a plant-based kibble using a significant amount of various named meats and meat meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.
Enthusiastically recommended."
Here is the link for Canidae "Dry Dog Food" line (3.5 stars): http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/canidae-dog-food-dry/
and here is the link for the Canidae "Grain Free Pure" line (5 stars):
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/canidae-dog-food-grain-free-dry/
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381971 - 08/19/2013 08:36 AM |
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The main website has a large banner that in part reads "ALL NEW RECIPES".
http://www.canidae.com/
It's possible that they added new flavors rather than changing the old flavors and somebody jumped to the wrong conclusion.
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Re: Canidae has sold out
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#381972 - 08/19/2013 08:46 AM |
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Cheri, what kibbles are better than Canidae? I know Orijen is supposed to be one but I've never been able to find it. My understanding is Innova is not as good as it once was.
Kory, I'm not avoiding your question, LOL, but I'm reluctant to start listing brands, for a couple reasons. First, I don't consider myself a canine nutritional expert; just a dog owner who went through a couple years with a dog who was having chronic loose stools, skin and coat issues. I did months of research into what goes into dog food, what the good stuff is and what the bad stuff is. I even did a homemade diet for a year.
I finally found a number of brands and varieties that my problem dog seems to do well on. I rotate brands because, in a nutshell, I don't ever want to rely on just one dog food to provide for all my dogs' nutritional needs over their lifetime.
But it's important to say that I didn't try all brands, obviously! I'm sure there are a lot of high-quality kibbles out there I haven't tried personally.
When I said Canidae was middle-of-the-road, I was not saying it is sub-standard. If I was feeding Canidae, I would continue to do so unless and until I saw undesirable changes in the ingredient list or some unexplained problem with my dogs. Most dog food rating sites put Canidae in the three- to five-star category, depending on the variety. I tried Canidae in the past, and my dog had loose stools on it, but in all fairness, he had loose stools on lots of different brands at that time. I know several people who feed it and love it.
There is no shortage of dog food rating sites out there. There are a number of good ones I used in my previous research; unfortunately, some of them appear to not have been updated recently, so watch for that. But I would say try to learn as much as you can about how dog food is made and what constitutes good ingredients versus not-so-good or downright bad.
The foods that work best for my dog may not be the ones that work best for your dog. There are many variables to be factored in, not only involving your dog, any allergies or sensitivities he may have, but things like availability in your area, budget, etc.
I believe Connie already mentioned some of the basics of the ingredient list. Look for a named meat or meat meal as one of the first couple ingredients, avoid anything that says "by-products." Be choosy about the carbs.
In my case, I found that my problem dog does best on a food that has a limited number of ingredients. My gosh, some labels have a couple dozen different ingredients! And I'm not talking about the added vitamins and minerals here. With my guy, the more ingredients by sheer number, the more likely he was to have loose stools. But that's just my dog. The other side of that coin is that all those ingredients provide a lot of variety and micronutrients. That's why I say you have to find what works best for your dog.
Sorry if this seemed like a long, drawn-out post avoiding your question! I'll be happy to tell you what I feed my dogs, if that's what you're asking, but I think the bigger issue is: How do I choose a high-quality kibble for my dog's needs? Please feel free to post about a brand you are considering or if you have more questions about particular ingredients, etc.! I'm sure you'll get lots of replies.
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