Also one attack can trigger a pack mentality and 10-15 dogs in a yard won't be pretty.
Connie talked about "even if I had 100% control".
I'm going to be full of myself here but I have better off leash control then just about anyone I know. I've stopped hunt terriers in their tracks with nothing but a command when they were a nose length off a bouncing bunny's butt. I STILL would never go to a dog park.
Compare it to driving a car. The safest driver on the planet is still subject to being "attacked" by the drunk on the road.

"I don't care if my control of my dogs is 100%, and I don't care if my dogs are models of canine manners. It makes no difference at all, none at all, because I have no guarantee about any of the OTHER dogs and owners."

+1!!!

I am petrified of dog fights!!


Edited by Carol Blumlein (09/03/2013 12:11 AM)
Edit reason: addition

I've read the post and following responses.

My observation is simple... No dog parks for my mutts.

In the microsecond it takes for two dogs to go at it, and given the seemingly blissful ignorance of entirely too many dog owners, I opine that a dog park is a dangerous place for my mutts.

If my responsibility is for the safety of my dogs, and I know with 20 20 foresight that a dog park is one of the most likely places my mutts will be at risk, then I have a responsibility to avoid the possibility of a bad outcome.

Put another way, my mutts don't need new best friends.

It really doesn't make any difference at all if my dog is command centric and absolutely under my control. The overall environment and range of potentially bad outcomes are not within my control.

The scenario described is and was an incident waiting to happen. That there was not a horrible outcome is the function of fortune not forethought.

How many posts have had similar themes? Some of the posts have described bad outcomes, some near misses, most laud the behavior of 'their' dog and decry the lack of control of others.

The issue for me is responsibility. I am responsible for the safety of my mutts in the first instance. It is my responsibility to not put the dogs in a place where there can be problems. As an aside, I have had to break up real fights over the years. I've been bitten pretty good. The lessons I learned from those experiences have convinced me of the need to be smarter than the dogs.

And I never fully trust another dog owner or their dog. Stuff happens, and it usually happens when you aren't fully managing a dog or watching and anticipating the behavior of other dogs and their owners.

There are a bunch of us who get together with our GSDs. It is clear to me that all of us are watchful, very watchful for the slightest sign of an issue. That watchfulness makes for fun gatherings but dogs are dogs and some times the moon is out of alignment.

I would rather be paranoid than surprised.

I couldn't have said it better, Mike.

Like Connie was saying, even when we walk, we are always scanning for potential problems, kids with dogs, mothers pushing strollers with dogs, people walking more than one dog, strays. And the list goes on and on.

So why would I let my dog go to a dog park?

 Quote: Milanka Ratkovich

A friend of mine went with her two border collies, the female doesnt like other dogs so one growl to my girls and that was all for the peace.

Just wanted to share the proud i feel with my "fighting breed", and well just to say that is the way you breed them, its how they develop them. Happy Sunday everyone!

I'll chip in my 2 cents worth of Cautionary Warning along with everyone else here who is Advising Milanka that if this Shepherd & Staffie are allowed to continue running free with other off-lead dogs, it will SOON End BADLY -- That setting is one of Canine Chaos begging for a BLOOD-BATH ... "All's well that ends well" until it doesn't !!!

 Quote: Carol Blumlein

I couldn't have said it better, Mike.

Like Connie was saying, even when we walk, we are always scanning for potential problems, kids with dogs, mothers pushing strollers with dogs, people walking more than one dog, strays. And the list goes on and on.

So why would I let my dog go to a dog park?

Yes.

I know that Milanka understands that all these posts come out of concern and not criticism. Those of us who have seen what can happen at off-leash parks and how fast it happens and how bad it can be .... we just all want to let others know so they don't have to experience a terrible experience.

It's not worth it. It is really not worth it. Having been around dogs for almost as long as Bob, I've learned beyond a doubt that off-leash meet-and-greets with strange dogs are not a good idea. Well-intentioned, yes, but very misguided.



It's hard to get it across without sounding preachy.

Not just off leash parks.
My brother and I often walk our dogs or train together. We even let them run off lead in the right circumstance but my two GSD and my brother's Presa are all intact males. They are not allowed to socialize, cover one another's pee spot or even sniff in the same spot. Either my brother or I am in between my GSDs and his Presa at all times.
They've never shown even an inclination or desire to quarrel or even associate with one another and there is no reason why they should.
Even if all three were neutered the rules wouldn't change. There is no need.
The ONLY time they are close is when we do sits and downs.
Our (everyone's) dogs have us. They don't need doggy friends.

As a dog owner, I feel it is my responsibility to protect my dogs. I have seen people bring their big dogs to an open area and then just release them. I have also seen people with very small dogs do the same. Now they are a distance from the owners as they sniff explore. I do not know how an owner could protect their dog or other peoples dogs from their dogs when they have no control over them. But I realize that many people do not have a clue. I have warned people with small dogs about large dogs roaming as a pair and they just say, they will work it all out. I am not worried. Like you have mentioned here, if you have seen a dog fight, it is horrible. A large dog can kill a small dog quickly.
I never want to put my dog in a position like that. I can't control what others do with their dogs, or what other dogs will do with my dogs, and I do not even want to trust my 3 terriers who have high prey drive to run freely and at a distance from me around other dogs. Dogs are not people, they are dogs and have instincts and behaviors we as humans just don't seem to notice, or understand. I always want to be on the safe side. That is why I do not go to dog parks. I am grateful to Ed that he has written the article on dog parks. I didn't have to experience a tragedy because I took his warning to heart. I am sorry, I kinda got carried away there for a moment. It really upsets me to see owners put their dogs in danger. It just takes a second and then it is too late.
Let's protect our dogs, sharon and her pups Bindi, Cody, Terra

Please don't take this as criticism but in everything I read in this thread, the one thing the really struck me was this statement.

 Quote: Milanka Ratkovich

but i do know that i have a dog that need to meet new dogs, and need to go out a lot.

There are hundreds of different ways to socialize a highly reactive dog to other dogs without them having to "meet". Our dog, Bailey, is a prime example. She was extremely reactive to other dogs and still can be. Rather than let her loose in a dog park, we followed much of the advice from the folks in this forum and gave her thousands of other opportunities to encounter other dogs in safer and more controlled settings. The countless threads here on desensitizing and saturation are invaluable. We walk the bike paths, park trails, malls, festivals, pet stores, playgrounds, and anywhere we can work on training and provide exposure to other dogs, people, and challenging situations, all while being able to control the situation. No where did she ever actually have to "meet" the other dogs, although I let her meet as many people as she wants. Eventually, our dog was able to cope with being around other dogs and feel safe with us in charge.

I've also had my experiences with dog fights and, like the others have said, you really don't want to go there. Those close encounters you described at the dog park are just close calls and you've been lucky so far. IMHO, it's still an accident waiting to happen.

Moved my post over here

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=33659&page=1#382605

since "Havana" probably isn't really the right thread for the general dog-park discussion that has evolved.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/04/2013 10:49 AM)
Edit reason: edited to move post