Connie Sutherland wrote 10/19/2013 10:09 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384671 - 10/19/2013 10:09 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"Your treat is not valuable enough. It should be more important than a distraction. Also, you are not properly engaged with the dog, and you shouldn't be training near any distraction that can interrupt your engagement." If the distraction keeps him from wanting the reward that he wants without it, then you have introduced that distraction too fast, too suddenly, too close, too something. Distractions (in the "how do you know" thread) were explained when I detailed how you proof for distraction, venue, distance, etc. ... they are phased in very gradually.
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Natalie Rynda wrote 10/19/2013 10:47 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384672 - 10/19/2013 10:47 PM
Natalie Rynda Webboard User Reg: 10-01-2013 Posts: 343 Loc: nyc Offline	He wanted it at the same spot seconds earlier 20 times right before and another 20 after. I'm not arguing with you, just trying to understand what makes him react to the marker 10 times and ignore the 11th I do have a question abt distractions Ed said 'the biggest mistake a trainer can make is introduce distractions too early' He didn't explain though. Do you know why? It seems like if you can get a dog to sit outside before he can sit inside then that's a good thing. Obviously it's not but i'd like to understand why otherwise I keep catching myself wanting to train under distractions because I'm thinking I'm skipping a big step
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Duane Hull wrote 10/20/2013 07:42 AM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384678 - 10/20/2013 07:42 AM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	It sounds like he's not hungry enough. If he is getting full, he will definitely lose interest in food rewards. Don't overdo it. Yet another reason to break your training down into several smaller sessions. If you're using that many treats, they need to be included in your dog's total daily food intake. If you do reduce the amount you feed him at mealtime and his food drive still does not peak, try skipping a meal. As I type, my dog has an upset stomach. She has ignored her breakfast, which she is normally crazy for. I would be foolish to think that she would be interested in working for food right now. Sadie
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/20/2013 09:50 AM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384681 - 10/20/2013 09:50 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"Ed said 'the biggest mistake a trainer can make is introduce distractions too early ... He didn't explain though. Do you know why?" Why? How do you learn something new? Better with kids playing tag in the room and the radio on loud and two people talking to you? Or better when you can focus on just the new thing? Ed is saying the same thing that we were saying throughout that proofing thread. You do not introduce distraction until the command is solid with NO distraction. Remember talking about a quiet no-distraction place to begin teaching a new activity/command? You don't introduce distraction until the dog is solid with no distraction, and then you introduce distraction very gradually, never increasing until you're solid at each step and never adding two things at once (like a venue change plus a distraction). All of this is in the "proofing" explanation in your first thread. QUOTE "Remember that you do not even add the tiniest distraction or venue change until all is great at NO distractions." and QUOTE "Do this slowly, and work on adding one new thing at a time."
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Natalie Rynda wrote 10/20/2013 01:55 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Duane Hull ] #384688 - 10/20/2013 01:55 PM
Natalie Rynda Webboard User Reg: 10-01-2013 Posts: 343 Loc: nyc Offline	Quote: Duane Hull It sounds like he's not hungry enough. If he is getting full, he will definitely lose interest in food rewards. Don't overdo it. Yet another reason to break your training down into several smaller sessions. If you're using that many treats, they need to be included in your dog's total daily food intake. If you do reduce the amount you feed him at mealtime and his food drive still does not peak, try skipping a meal. As I type, my dog has an upset stomach. She has ignored her breakfast, which she is normally crazy for. I would be foolish to think that she would be interested in working for food right now. Thank you))))) This answers it I do give him a lot sometimes and then I do subtract it. It's not for training, it's for desensitizing, I was following what my trainer had me do but I realized it's not the best way.
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Natalie Rynda wrote 10/20/2013 02:00 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #384689 - 10/20/2013 02:00 PM
Natalie Rynda Webboard User Reg: 10-01-2013 Posts: 343 Loc: nyc Offline	Connie, I remember and understood everything from the other thread. The reason I brought Ed's quote was because it was a short way to explain my confusion. I know how to proof for venue and distraction (in theory anyway), I just didn't understand why I couldn't start out with distractions, seemed like a great way of skipping a step (obviously not because everyone would be doing it so I wanted to know the reason) Thank you))))
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/20/2013 02:07 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384690 - 10/20/2013 02:07 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"It's not for training, it's for desensitizing" The same gradual introduction of distraction applies. Exactly the same. For desensitizing, the dog's reactivity trigger is the ultimate distraction. So the presence of the trigger is introduced only at the level/proximity where the reactive dog does not react. ETA You want to start at the distance from the trigger(s), or from any distraction, where the dog is still able to engage with, focus on, you and the work you and he are doing. Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/20/2013 02:07 PM) Edit reason: eta
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/20/2013 02:22 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384691 - 10/20/2013 02:22 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Here's another way to look at desensitizing and proofing for ob: The goal when you proof a command is for the dog to be able to focus on the ob without distraction(s) interfering with his focus. The goal when you do desensitizing work is for the dog to able to focus on the ob without the distraction of his trigger(s) interfering with his focus. The groundwork for both is starting with no distraction so the dog is able to achieve rock-solid compliance without distraction before adding in any kind of distraction.
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Natalie Rynda wrote 10/20/2013 02:56 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384692 - 10/20/2013 02:56 PM
Natalie Rynda Webboard User Reg: 10-01-2013 Posts: 343 Loc: nyc Offline	After reading your posts in some threads (especially Jodi's) I think it finally clicked Desensitizing is all about having commands so proofed for every distraction (including triggers as the ultimate distraction) that the dog listens no matter what's going on around it. So as Steve Strom said, it's all about rock solid obedience and that's where my focus should be for now.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/20/2013 03:12 PM Re: Separate sit and down [Re: Natalie Rynda ] #384693 - 10/20/2013 03:12 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	That is exactly correct. Yes, this is why Steve stresses obedience obedience obedience, with only slowly and methodically and gradually layering in distractions (and distance and changes in venue) while never allowing the dog's ability to focus on the obedience to falter. If it falters, if the dog is focused on something else, WE did something wrong, and it's usually adding in distractions too soon, too, much, too something.
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