Quote: Bob Scott

To add to Ian's comment it sounds like the reward may not be high enough for the dog to make the effort OR it's been unknowingly used as a bribe and if the dog doesn't see it then it doesn't connect the command immediately.

Have you used corrections when the dog doesn't understand on the first command?

"IF" you believe the dog really does understand then it could be time for a correction phase.

The "hey" may not be enough even though the dog does then obey.

Until now I only used corredtions for behaverial issues. If a dog for example doesn't perform a sit pretty on command ,(which I'm sure she understands and knows perfectly), why then should I give a correction if she does it after "Hey!'?
It then means for me it was my fault. I think I hadn't trained it sufficiently to make her do it immediately, although I believed t have done it.Why should I correct her for my own error?

 Quote: ian bunbury

i had a big surprise the other day .

about 8 months ago i had taught henry to close the door behind him , before he was allowed into the house where he would receive his dinner .

i can't remember when i kind of let the behaviour slide , and then i went to california for the last three months .

two nights ago , i had let henry out for his " hurry up " before dinner , and sure enough , when i opened the inner door to let him in , he automatically turned and shut the outside door before running in to look for his supper . . . i'd forgotten i even taught him that !

This is incredible and extremly sweet.You're rght it depends certainly on the dog. But as I have been surprised or disppointed already by the same dog,I always have the tendency to think if I had not been aware enough of something during the training.There are so many different factors involved, which I might have overlooked and which doesn't necessrily is dog specific.
But of ourse if certain trends are shownrepeteey by the same dog and there s clear difference between two ore more dogs, then it is obvious that it depends on the dog.

I haven't been following this thread too closely. It's a bit hard to understand. However, your comment, "disppointed already by the same dog..." says it all in my opinion. A dog shouldn't disappoint you - you should be disappointed in yourself for not being able to communicate with your dog what you are trying to teach him. You're blaming the dog for the failure when your lack of knowledge is where the problem lies.

Sorry, but that's my opinion based upon your writings.

N, Kelly, I'm not blaming my dog at all. Maybe I have written this y more as it did before..The disppointment is all on myself That's why \i'm trying to find out, what I should make different.Because I believed, he knew the exercuse quase perfectly, I was suprised, that it didn´t work any more as befre.Vice versa hapened againThat's why \i wante to know how much time (average) I can ket pssbefore it comes to extintin.

Thank you for answering. Sometimss it is diffiut to distinguish, beause so many different fctors are involved.

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

 Quote: Bob Scott

To add to Ian's comment it sounds like the reward may not be high enough for the dog to make the effort OR it's been unknowingly used as a bribe and if the dog doesn't see it then it doesn't connect the command immediately.

Have you used corrections when the dog doesn't understand on the first command?

"IF" you believe the dog really does understand then it could be time for a correction phase.


The "hey" may not be enough even though the dog does then obey.

Until now I only used corredtions for behaverial issues. If a dog for example doesn't perform a sit pretty on command ,(which I'm sure she understands and knows perfectly), why then should I give a correction if she does it after "Hey!'?
It then means for me it was my fault. I think I hadn't trained it sufficiently to make her do it immediately, although I believed t have done it.Why should I correct her for my own error?

If it happens on a regular basis then the dog needs to understand that it needs to obey right now and not at it's leasure.

With markers if it doesn't respond the you give a "nope" and start over.

Rewarding after you have to respond then the behavior isn't as solid as you want it.

It must respond for fear of loosing the reward OR fear of a correction.

 Quote: Tanya Moyer

I haven't been following this thread too closely. It's a bit hard to understand. However, your comment, "disppointed already by the same dog..." says it all in my opinion. A dog shouldn't disappoint you - you should be disappointed in yourself for not being able to communicate with your dog what you are trying to teach him. You're blaming the dog for the failure when your lack of knowledge is where the problem lies.

Sorry, but that's my opinion based upon your writings.

No need to be sorry. By the way, I am not disapointed about the dgs but about recognizing that i'm estimated them wrong, in other words bout my training.It s not heir fault.Thanks a lot for nswering

 Quote: Bob Scott

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

 Quote: Bob Scott

To add to Ian's comment it sounds like the reward may not be high enough for the dog to make the effort OR it's been unknowingly used as a bribe and if the dog doesn't see it then it doesn't connect the command immediately.

Have you used corrections when the dog doesn't understand on the first command?

"IF" you believe the dog really does u

nderstand then it could be time for a correction phase.


No reward,for not obeying, clear. But following Ed's aevices a dog should get a a warning a no, wrong, hey whatsever, as a secnd chnnce. A cnrrection only follows if he does not use this second chance.


The "hey" may not be enough even though the dog does then obey.

Until now I only used corredtions for behaverial issues. If a dog for example doesn't perform a sit pretty on command ,(which I'm sure she understands and knows perfectly), why then should I give a correction if she does it after "Hey!'?
It then means for me it was my fault. I think I hadn't trained it sufficiently to make her do it immediately, although I believed t have done it.Why should I correct her for my own error?

If it happens on a regular basis then the dog needs to understand that it needs to obey right now and not at it's leasure.

With markers if it doesn't respond the you give a "nope" and start over.

Rewarding after you have to respond then the behavior isn't as solid as you want it.

It must respond for fear of loosing the reward OR fear of a correction.

Srry, mixed uo names! Thanks Tanya

I'm having a hard time deciphering exactly what you are trying to say, so please correct me if I am wrong. You're asking when is it ok to correct your dog for not obeying a known command, right? You're also asking, when is a known command considered rock solid so that you can correct?

If that's what you're asking then I'll offer the possibility your dog is not motivated to perform either because 1) it doesn't really understand what you're asking for, 2) you haven't reinforced the command enough to make it worthwhile for him/her, 3) it's just not motivated for the reward you are offering, or 4) it's just not motivated. Unfortunately any or all of those possibilities can only be evaluated by you.

If any of these behaviors have had correction (instead of motivation by positive means) the dog might be sensitive to trying new behaviors. Once again that goes back to, it doesn't understand what you're asking for and somewhere along the line a correction may have demotivated him/her to perform. If all around motivation is the issue then step back and go back to interactive play games to build up the desire to work.

Yes, Tanya,you understood it right. The onlz thing i would like to emphasize is that I do not give orrections for an exercise, which I thought was solid, but then I realize it is not.
A correction, with the leashz I onlz give for behavioral issues, e.g. pulling etc. For not following a command like Sit, Down, Stand, Roll over etc. I never give a correction. I simplz go back to the spot where I began and make the dog repeat it.

But when I see, he has heard it then my correction, if we can call it like this, is Hey. This works, if he has heard and understood me. It does not work, when the dog was too distracted or if the exercise was not soiid enough.In this case a correction would not be fair. All what happens after this is, he will get no reward and I will train the exercise on a lower level

If the distraction was too high, I know I have to train on a spot, where it is more calm, and I have to trz to engage him more. With relationship gmes I always work.

I do not think, that it is a question of the reward. I give high value treats and allways reward randomly.

In my eyes the motivatoin can not be the reason, but yes, a competitive motivator, which in this specific situation is more attractive than I. Means it happened bz surprise or I have chosen a surrounding, which is too difficult for the moment.

Other possibility, which you mention, The dog has not fullz understood, what I want or the exercise is not zet solid enough. But why then she do the right thing after I called Hey. This without repeating the command.

Thank you, Tanza, for spending all that time for answering.