Mike Arnold, I love the hand signals with the commands, I have been using them for sit and settle, he has caught on to the settle quickly! But I guess since sitting wasn't allowed in his past, it will be a while before he realizes things are much different and much more fun here!

C) OR, just Watch him like a hawk Inside & Wait till he can Hardly Hold his poop...

D) Then take him out Onlead & March briskly To & Fro in a straight line with 180 degree About-Turns every 6 feet...

Today he tested that theory, he woke up in a mood, he faced the wall the whole morning on his bed, and when let out and told okay go potty, laid down and refused to move in the pen for 5 hrs..he stayed in the same position, when I was not pacing him for the whole 5 hrs..finally by 7pm I had it! We ignored him in the pen, the kids were outside biking and playing, he didn't gove two craps.so I had a bit of a meltdown, told him Go Poop, and stim'd him when he tried to lay down again, with the vibe.
I said nope, go poop, he started walking around, and than laid down and ignored the vibe. I will have to say I got pissed off, and we went back and forth, with him trying to lay down and me telling him to go poop before I had it and stim'd him with the shock and a sharp no, go poop. After 15min of me saying no everytime he tried to lay down and zapping him when he tried to lay down, he squatted, crapped the biggest crap I have ever seen to fit in my shovel. As soon as he got out of poop position I popped the pen open in a happy voice, rewarded, petted, and fed him.
4 hours later, I let him out for his bedtime pee, and he did..so he didn't associate the collar today with negativity to the pen, thankfully.
How much did I go wrong here? I did let my anger in him repeatedly laying when told to potty get to the point where I used the collar in a way I hoped not too, but after pacing him back and forth for well over an hour, with him stancing his show stance everytime I stopped and said okay go poop, is it just me thinking this is a "I don't want to" rather than "I don't know?

Well, the dog probably associates a NO with you wanting it to pay attention to you. Follow the NO with a pause and a phrase having to do with pooping, like do it or poop.

Probably a reward phrase would be good poop or the like if it does what you want prompted or not. Or the simple, enthusiastically expressed YESSSS.

The next few days will be the tale of the tape. If the dog pays attention to you, it is an ah ha moment.

Lots of praise for performance. Attitude and correction for ignoring you.

Don't apply human rationalizations to a dog. Go forward, not backward. Be gentle. Be kind. But remember the pecking order. Don't correct with regret in your attitude.

We train the dog today for the dog we want tomorrow.

Memorial Day in the USA. Not a holiday in my mind.

Oh, he knew he wasn't supposed to lay down, when I want him to focuz on me I tell him "Jazz here" and he comes sits and looks at my face, he was just hoping to darn hell I would let him out of the pen, it was cold and windy, which he seems to dislike, but I stood my ground yest and refused to let him out until that poo hit the ground, marked it with a good boy, got all gushy and rewarded him, let him run around loose for a bit and back in the house we went for a good brush down and his meal. He suffered no adverse side effects, lol, but after yest, today when I say come he pops up and follows me.. Maybe he needed a bit of discipline, maybe not, will see within the next few days.
Anytime during our walk or at home when he does any potty, no matter what I reward and praise him, he just seems to get in these moods sometimes where he doesn't want to be bothered. I don't give in, weather doesn't stop me, and it shall not stop him!
Thank you for that, I do not like to correct with more than my voice and a leash pop. I just really did not want to use the collar stim for more than a stopper for poop eating. But in the end, we got our poop and play, so moving on is what we shall do!

Training gets messy sometimes. When it comes down to it all you did was communicate that Down was one of the many things that "go potty" does NOT mean. I wouldn't worry about it.

He must have needed it, took only 2 stims yest evening and than he had a good poop, and was super excited when he was let out, even tried to gallop around a bit! I guess maybe he did need a firm hand!
Thanks again everyone! And due to me pushing him to poop while I have been standing beside the pen, he hasn't given the poop a second thought! If we can keep this up he may forget about it altogether

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

Wow Cathy, 5 dogs..you must have a lot of Patience!!

WOW, Cathy, you must have a Lot of POOP

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

He must have needed it,

took only 2 stims yest evening and than he had a good poop,

and was super excited when he was let out,

even tried to gallop around a bit!

I guess maybe he did need a firm hand!

And due to me pushing him to poop while I have been standing beside the pen,

he hasn't given the poop a second thought!

If we can keep this up he may forget about it altogether

OK, that Worked !!!

But I must have gotten lost over the long wknd...

So you "Lightning Bolt STIMMED HIM for Poop Sniff", correct?

No question that Avoidance/Aversion e-stim WORKS Appropriately.

But you ALSO stayed Outside with him,

and firmly Commanded Him to poop (no nonsense approach) right?

Good job, whatever all your did, Becky

No, I didn't get a chance to correct him for the poop sniffing as of yet, he was trying to lay down and avoid pooping when I knew he had to poop (he has a body language he does when he has to poop) so I stim'd him with a low stim everytime he tried to lay down with a Nope, and repeated go poop, he got it, and this morning did not need to be stimmed at all!
His reward today was a leashless bike ride at his pace, and a nice break at the local marina, twas a good day, he even sat for every car that passed, got an awesome petting and praise for that..sadly not treats, black bears have been spotted so not safe to carry anything but my coffee (life is too short not to bike without coffee!!)

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

No, I didn't get a chance to correct him for the poop sniffing as of yet, he was trying to lay down and avoid pooping when I knew he had to poop (he has a body language he does when he has to poop) so I stim'd him with a low stim everytime he tried to lay down with a Nope, and repeated go poop, he got it, and this morning did not need to be stimmed at all!
His reward today was a leashless bike ride at his pace, and a nice break at the local marina, twas a good day, he even sat for every car that passed, got an awesome petting and praise for that..sadly not treats, black bears have been spotted so not safe to carry anything but my coffee (life is too short not to bike without coffee!!)

All RIGHTY Then !!! NO Treats For BEARS