Great explanation, Duane. I can see, that I must watch all that stuff with really open eyes. I'm aware, I can learn a lot from other people, but I have to go on thoroughly.

I am in my age not driven by competitive ambitions (which I don't consider to be negative at all), but my age has the advantage that the well-being of my dogs always will have priority.

But even with this attitude we can
often be mistaken.Good to have you and Bob.It makes me be much more cautious.

What you're writng about Ivan not being the creator of the "Out" is certainly possible but I read it from articles about him, not just from him talking about himself.

Nevertheless this doesn't mean that those others are right. What we read in the net can be very confusing and misleading. And finally if he is or not, doesn't really bother me.What is important is if it makes sesne or not.

What you write about Michzel is definitively true. From the didactiv point of view he is far superior. If I'd spend the money for an a bt advanced course I'd certainly choose the one LB offers from him.

You wrote you're not so much fan on taking courses.In my personal situation I'm depending on online courses, because here within a reasonable distance you'll find no acceptable trainer and a course you can forget.People here don't train their dogs. Training=Forcing=Beating.

You - from or about Leerburg's - are my only support to follow on the path I think right, and I'll continue like this, although my training is still full of mistakes.

I and Socks, Slippie, Bruxinha and Charlie are happy to have found you. Lots of wet kisses!

One thing to remember about ALL the different trainers mentioned.

Listen to all of them because they are all top shelf but then you have to decide what works for YOU and YOUR dog.

For me it's Ellis and Balabanov is a close second determined by who explains thigs best.

BOTH are excellent trainers!

Yes I think very highly of Michael and once I have compared Balabanov enough I will see what matches with Ellis and/or what will convince me and suit each individual dog. Then there will be the turn of the other triners you and Duane named.
Thanks again for the great inputs!