 Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Cathy Goessman ]
#401124 - 06/09/2016 09:10 AM |
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Look at the Labradoodles. I've seen some that are dumber than stumps and some that are definitely poodle intelligence level. I've seen some that shed like crazy or mat when you look at them wrong because they got the worst combo of coat genetics and some that have a lovely relatively low maintenance coat because they got the best combo of coat genetics.
Exactly.
However, to highlight my point, did the creation of the Labradoodle benefit the Labrador or the Poodle?
The Dutch are trying to breed working dogs that combine the best qualities of the stock they select. What they are accomplishing is not doing a G-- D--- thing for the GSD.
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Cathy Goessman ]
#401125 - 06/09/2016 09:15 AM |
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Look at the Labradoodles. I've seen some that are dumber than stumps and some that are definitely poodle intelligence level. I've seen some that shed like crazy or mat when you look at them wrong because they got the worst combo of coat genetics and some that have a lovely relatively low maintenance coat because they got the best combo of coat genetics. |
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401128 - 06/09/2016 11:40 PM |
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I have read somewhere that the originator of the labradoodle has since regretted it seeing how many crazy directions it's gone.
He supposedly started with high quality dogs of both breeds but that turned into byb's taking any two of the breeds and cranking out puppies.
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401134 - 06/10/2016 09:58 PM |
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I think (from my observations of farm and stock dogs) that it is very possible to cross breed dogs with success. If you have a purpose in mind and know what you're doing. And stay with in the same general type. Like two herding breeds (ACD/BC) or a hunting/hound cross (I've seen some bloodhound/lab mixes in SAR). Of course then you also get the sport crosses. I'm not a fan of many of those as I see temperament and balanced drives given far less concern than height or crazy speed.
But it's not preserving a breed/making it healthier as much as it a purpose bred cross to hopefully get desirable qualities of both. Which is what good breeders of purebreds are doing, too.
I'm totally cool with purposeful crosses for working dogs. Sport crosses, well, the water gets a bit muddier for me. Designer dog pets? eek!!!
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401135 - 06/10/2016 10:11 PM |
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I would think that all the breeds were mixes in the beginning.
The big difference then and still often in a working dog world is culling.
If they couldn't do the job they were out of any breeding program at best.
In GB in particular they still cross the running dogs with herding dogs to "create" the Lurchers.
How many become pets and bred on would only be a guess on my part.
o many breed today regardless of lines, genetic problems etc for no other reason then making a buck.
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401137 - 06/13/2016 11:10 AM |
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I understand your desire for the "better chance for healthier pups" in your original post. While crossing in any animal CAN bring hybrid vigor, you also are taking the chance that none of the offspring can fulfill the purpose for which it was bred. But some may, which is why the culling is so important in any intentional crossing...in cattle, I guess we eat those mistakes (literally). Also, breeding for a "purpose" would also give you more genetic leeway if certain characteristics were able to be overlooked...coat, eye color, tail carriage. It is my understanding that a sled dog in Alaska is one that can pull a sled well, not one that looks a certain way or has a certain coat.
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401138 - 06/13/2016 10:37 PM |
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"It is my understanding that a sled dog in Alaska is one that can pull a sled well, not one that looks a certain way or has a certain coat".
That should be the standard for any breed but reality rears it's ugly head more often then not.
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401139 - 06/14/2016 01:23 PM |
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Thanks for all of your input, everyone. I appreciate you taking the time to help me learn more about this.
Makes me wonder if there has ever been an attempt to officially classify American working line GSD's separately from the show lines. How is this done in Germany? Are the show lines registered through FCI, and the working lines through another organization?
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401140 - 06/14/2016 10:44 PM |
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In Germany the show line GSD is required to have a "working" title as in Schutzhund or HGH.
The HGH is a seldom seen title today anywhere. It's a type of herding not similar to what is normally seen in common with the Border Collies.
Schutzhund titles on a Show line dog in Germany is very suspect to it's validity.
There are clubs that basically mass produce the titles for many show line dogs.
Not all hopefully but no at all uncommon.
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Re: Breeding for health
[Re: Joel Smith ]
#401158 - 06/15/2016 10:37 AM |
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Thanks Bob. How are the working line GSD's titled and registered in Germany?
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