The crate experience with Maverick was easy even though he was only 5 weeks old(I know too young). I tired his butt out and then put him in for the night. Some crying but nothing extreme. After 2 nights he was basically crate trained. With Rogue I tried the same thing. 4 nights solid of howling and barking. At the request of housemates I gave in and let her sleep in the bed with me. She slept like a log until 5am or so when she got up to potty. I moved out on my own a few weeks later and at that point she crate trained just as easy as Maverick did. I don't know whether she needed the extra time to mature or just get over litter separation but she definitely needed it.

I fed my young pups off the floor of the kennel and during training exclusively so they are generally pretty happy to see the crate since they are going to be fed.

"Crate guilt" creates way more issues then it does good if it does any good at all.

New pups are no different then new babies in the sleep department.

Get them up because they cry and you create a monster that runs your days and nights.

The get over it when they discover the noise doesn't work.

Some just take a little longer.

When my pits were puppies I ran because of almost every sound out of fear something was wrong. Exactly what Bob says: like this we create monsters, who train you not the other way round. I learned it then, for I really was fed up running all the time, though it made me suffer, suffer! And - nothing happened. They got used to my new behavior.

 Quote: Bob Scott

"Crate guilt" creates way more issues then it does good if it does any good at all.

New pups are no different then new babies in the sleep department.

Get them up because they cry and you create a monster that runs your days and nights.

The get over it when they discover the noise doesn't work.

Some just take a little longer.

Lundy (the pup we had to send back) hardly slept at all in the crate. For the whole 8 weeks we had him. He would sleep a half hour and then bam, awake. I didn't let him out, but it was hard when he'd start whining to get out after an hour since he didn't sleep. I'd give him chew toys and bones in there, but he only chewed on that stuff when he was out of the crate. So he'd just lay there and get bored, but not sleep. I found it stressful!!

ANY movement at all from you would have woke him up and stressing over it probably added to his waking with any movement from you.

I'm guessing he probably got more sleep then you thought.

We ALL need to just relax more and just enjoy our dogs.

I had a somehow similar problem with my dogs after training or walking. I have then of course some other work to do. But I leave the doors to the house open (they're outside dogs), so that they can see or hear what's going on and that we are still here.

But when I come in sight for them, I see them standing there directly in front of the invisble barrier which they are not allowed to cross and they look at me in a way as if they were saying: "Will we now do something together again?". This created a hell of guilt in me. I then sometimes went to cuddle them for a while or insert two or three short exercises.

Result: it increased their expectations and worsened my feelings of guilt. I had to become then quite strict
about these things. But I still have feelings of guilt.

Am I interpreting their looks too much or in a wrong way or should I actually do more with them than this: 1 hour walk, two or three times 15 minutes training and now and then a few surprise exercises. Everything with each one separately. Additionally I'm quite often on the veranda working on the PC and then they are lying near to me, but I'm not doing anything with them apart from petting from time to time.

Should I change something of my schedule?

 Quote: Bob Scott

ANY movement at all from you would have woke him up and stressing over it probably added to his waking with any movement from you.

I'm guessing he probably got more sleep then you thought.

We ALL need to just relax more and just enjoy our dogs.

You are SO right about just enjoy our dogs Bob! Looking back, I know the reason I was struggling with guilt (which I did not do with Kasey), is because the trainer I was using is 100% pure positive reinforcement - for EVERYTHING. If Lundy was humping our leg (which he did multiples times every day while digging his teeth into our pants or leg), she said to just stand like a tree and ignore him. If he was crying in the crate, then she said you had to go back to treating him for just walking in, then close the door for 1 minute while treating, and so on, until he loved the crate - or else, she said, we would create separate anxiety issues. If he was jumping on you, then you calmly wait till his paws hit the floor, then treat. You felt like you had no control and the dog was in charge of everything. Or else you'd ruin them somehow....

Definitely find a new real life reality trainer to work with next time...AND....trust your gut. Marker work is the best...but don't ever loose your common sense.

You have been here at LB for years Lori, we know you....you know how to roll....Your gut & common sense trumps anything a trainer will tell you. In the end....It's YOUR DOG.

 Quote: Anne Jones

Definitely find a new real life reality trainer to work with next time...AND....trust your gut. Marker work is the best...but don't ever loose your common sense.

You have been here at LB for years Lori, we know you....you know how to roll....Your gut & common sense trumps anything a trainer will tell you. In the end....It's YOUR DOG.

That's what my husband kept telling me too! I lost my confidence with Lundy and wasn't trusting my gut for sure. The trainer had me paranoid I was going to cause issues if I used corrections and I trusted her instead of me. When I sent Lundy back to the breeder (this breeder and her daughter train their own dogs for show and obedience), they were surprised that for the guarding issue my trainer only did positive reinforcement by dropping tons of treats in front of him and waiting for him to drop the bully stick. It felt to us like Lundy was getting rewarded for guarding. The breeder did things differentl, though totally humanely, and within a week Lundy was dropping the bone when they asked him to. Today he is not guarding and a stranger can walk up and take the bully stick without Lundy even caring. They used a combination of correction/not letting him have his way AND positive reinforcement when he would comply. I kind of want him back now but can't afford him now that he's a trained dog!

Positive reinforcement works well to teach things but punishment is still NEEDED to reliably modify behavior. What does that behavioral science that the "positive" crowd loves so much tell us is the purpose of punishment? Punishment is to make a behavior less likely to occur in the future. You've only got one oar in the water if you're using only positive reinforcement to modify behaviors.

In short, that trainer is an idiot.