Quote: Bob Scott

Thanks Cheri. Interesting to know and always good to learn something new.

I've covered most training methods in my life time but haven't found anything to come close to what Ellis does.

I started with ME when I started with search dogs. His methods worked very well for me and I'm still a big fan.


But I have found that his methods may not be ideal for dogs with lower natural engagement or drive. Because there is a certain amount of pressure to be "on, on, on".

In that regard, I've found a lot of what Denise Fenzi says to be helpful.

The cool thing about the internet is that there is a lot of good stuff out there. Just have to know how to sort out the bad...

I do agree about "dogs with lower natural engagement or drive".

Having predominantly spent 40+ yrs with half a dozen terrier breeds and a dozen or more with working line GSDs I don't think about that as often as a should.

One of my Pits, Slippie, was a very low drive dog. She will probably never be really high drive. I took with her Forrest's HT 1-3 and she was mostly rather boring. Now I've taken HT 1 again with Socks, but who then got ill.

Now you should see Slippie. She's suddenly another dog. She trains like hell and doesn't get enough of it.
How is this possible?

And: Who is Denise Frenzi? Another top trainer, specialized in something?

By the way, I know now, who is Denise Frenzi. Very interesting. Will have to contact her.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

Our own Niomi Smith, fellow LB forum member, has a blog, not strictly about training but more general dog information like health, nutrition, etc. She hasn't posted much recently, but there's a lot of older stuff to peruse through.

http://ironhidekennels.blogspot.com/

Thanks Cheri! I will readily admit my blog has fallen to the wayside recently due to a move to the new home BUT I have already plans in the works to turn that around and get posting MORE training stuff

I will be focusing on obedience, detection and tricks, so stay tuned!

 Quote: Niomi Smith

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

Our own Niomi Smith, fellow LB forum member, has a blog, not strictly about training but more general dog information like health, nutrition, etc. She hasn't posted much recently, but there's a lot of older stuff to peruse through.
http://ironhidekennels.blogspot.com/

Thanks Cheri! I will readily admit my blog has fallen to the wayside recently due to a move to the new home BUT I have already plans in the works to turn that around and get posting MORE training stuff

I will be focusing on obedience, detection and tricks, so stay tuned!

It's good to hear from you, Niomi! I think most of us on the board can definitely understand how doing the things we must do in everyday life can sometimes leave us with little if any time to do the things we'd like to do. And moving to a new house is way up there on the scale of time consumption!

I will look forward to seeing new posts on your blog when you're able, but I wanted to mention it here because I think even the older stuff contains a wealth of good information on a variety of dog-related topics.

 Quote: Bob Scott

I do agree about "dogs with lower natural engagement or drive".

Having predominantly spent 40+ yrs with half a dozen terrier breeds and a dozen or more with working line GSDs I don't think about that as often as a should.

Yeah, the Border Collies have made me forget about that from time to time as well...

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

One of my Pits, Slippie, was a very low drive dog. She will probably never be really high drive. I took with her Forrest's HT 1-3 and she was mostly rather boring. Now I've taken HT 1 again with Socks, but who then got ill.

Now you should see Slippie. She's suddenly another dog. She trains like hell and doesn't get enough of it.
How is this possible?

I've been thinking about your question above, Christina -- Did Slippie's transformation you describe happen to correspond with Sock's illness at all ??? It is ONLY conjecture-from-afar on my part, of course, but one possibility that does come to mind I this:

I wonder if Pack Dynamics has played a role in Slippie's change of attitude (???) Sometimes if one dog is in a Subordinate Status compared to another packmate's Superior Status within the K9 hierarchy, it will display a "less lively" & more passive or subdued demeanor -- But if the other Superior Status dog becomes ill, or gets old & weak, or leaves the pack, THEN the hitherto Subordinate Status dog may "come into its own like a grown child stepping out from beneath a parent's shadow" and it might subsequently express a "more lively" attitude ... Just some food for thought here, anyway

Sorry, I think, I made a too abrupt transition, which gave the impression that Slippie changed so incredibly after Socks got ill. There is no connection between Slippie's transformation and Sock's illness.

Slippie had already become "another" dog before that. I've also trained with all my dogs (except the brain damaged one) the same exercises, but of course I could only upload the videos of one.

But I've given it since yesterday lots of thoughts about what you wrote about the pack structure. Slippie had been, since she had taken those three courses, watching quase continuosly and very interested when I trained with one of the others. It looked as if she was recognizing the exercises and thinking something like:"Ah, that one I know too!"

Well, this is probably exaggerated. But what do I know, what's going on in a dog's head. It can also be that I unconsciosly behaved differently with the dog who was the actual student of the course.

On the other hand I had also taken Mark's Relationship Games with each one. There Socks came first, then Slippie. This didn't make a noticeable difference between the two.

I also have to add, that Slippie always had the superior status, but Socks was always the more lively one and never really submissive towards her.

Slippie has meanwhile become much calmer and more tolerant on the whole and much livelier in the sessions. She has only each evening her crazy 15 minutes. Then they chase each other, making curves like a tilting train,only that with so much tilting the train would derail. But then again they're both calm like sheeps.

Well, I'm not sure any more about their pack structure. I don't know if it is changing, I don't know if she became calmer because she's older, short; I don't know anything!!! There could be so many factors.

But it is very good you made me think about all this. It makes me observe them (and myself!)from this point of view much more. Highly interesting stuff actually. Thanks, Candi, for that great input!

 Quote: Christina Stockinger

Sorry, I think, I made a too abrupt transition, which gave the impression that Slippie changed so incredibly after Socks got ill. There is no connection between Slippie's transformation and Sock's illness.

Slippie had already become "another" dog before that. I've also trained with all my dogs (except the brain damaged one) the same exercises, but of course I could only upload the videos of one.

But I've given it since yesterday lots of thoughts about what you wrote about the pack structure. Slippie had been, since she had taken those three courses, watching quase continuosly and very interested when I trained with one of the others. It looked as if she was recognizing the exercises and thinking something like:"Ah, that one I know too!"

Well, this is probably exaggerated. But what do I know, what's going on in a dog's head. It can also be that I unconsciosly behaved differently with the dog who was the actual student of the course.

On the other hand I had also taken Mark's Relationship Games with each one. There Socks came first, then Slippie. This didn't make a noticeable difference between the two.

I also have to add, that Slippie always had the superior status, but Socks was always the more lively one and never really submissive towards her.

Slippie has meanwhile become much calmer and more tolerant on the whole and much livelier in the sessions. She has only each evening her crazy 15 minutes. Then they chase each other, making curves like a tilting train,only that with so much tilting the train would derail. But then again they're both calm like sheeps.

Well, I'm not sure any more about their pack structure. I don't know if it is changing, I don't know if she became calmer because she's older, short; I don't know anything!!! There could be so many factors.

But it is very good you made me think about all this. It makes me observe them (and myself!)from this point of view much more. Highly interesting stuff actually. Thanks, Candi, for that great input!

Ah, OK LOL, I don't know anything either, there could be so many factors...

Most important is: Health & Happiness to you all !!!