Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402230 - 10/06/2016 09:44 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 03-28-2013
Posts: 1571
Loc:
Offline |
|
I've been thinking about a thread that has been open now for a while -it's about a person who adopted an aggressive dog so that he was not put to sleep - she knows what he is and is working though it. She came here looking for advice, and guidance.
There was a comment, basically saying that with all the good dogs out there, why was this person doing all this work with a dog that may end up being put to sleep anyway.
I have mixed emotions about that type of thinking - yes, there are some great dogs in shelters that need homes, and they won't be as much work as this dog is.
BUT.
Sometimes a dog just calls to you. I tried to save a dog in a shelter thousands of miles away. There were probably very adoptable dogs between here and there... but I tried to save her. Ultimately, I failed and she was PTS, but it wasn't for lack of effort on my part.
I also brought home Caterina - one of my Malinois. She was a terror - there were people telling me right and left that she was crazy and not worth the effort. Caterina is now a therapy dog, and my soulmate. Had I listened to those nay-sayers, I would not have her in my life, and I don't even want to think about that...
When we question someone's actions, like taking in an aggressive dog, where does it end? Why take that old dog out of the shelter - he's gonna die soon any way? Why save that blind dog - she can't have much of a life. Why bring that sick and mangy dog home, there are plenty in the shelter that aren't that sick. Etc. Etc. Etc. Where does it end? When only perfect dogs are up for adoption?
Please, before you question someone about WHY they are doing something for a dog that you may not think is worth it, think about it. It may not be worth the effort for you, but for that person, it is... or they would not be doing it. Yes, sometimes we bite off more than we can chew when we take on a situation like that - and we come to a place like this for support, advice, and guidance.... not criticism. I was lucky to have Ed, Cindy, and Michael Ellis at my beck and call when I ran into problems with my dogs.. not everybody has that.
The Universe gives you the dog you need, not the dog you want. I believe that whole heartedly.
As I write this, I have Caterina looking at me and wagging her tail - she was a very special needs case, and while she took some great steps forward, she also took some pretty big ones back. I had a LOT of support while working with her, and I owe each person more than I can ever express. Was she worth it? ABSOLUTELY. Would I do it again? ABSOLUTELY.
Please think before you judge.
Kel
PERFECTLY expressed as always, Kelly, thank you so much
My grown son's 1st Rescue Doberman back in 2004 was what many would label a "dangerous dog" -- He LOVED his rescuer at the Sanctuary, and he LOVED us as his adopters, but he HATED everyone else in general ... Duke was a gargantuan personal responsibility 24/7 for the 10 years that we had him !!! I told Noah that Duke would most likely be the Most Difficult dog he would ever own, but he'd also always be his "firstborn" and as such would FOREVER have a truly Special place in his Heart. We have NEVER regretted saving Duke, but I would likewise Never Lightly encourage anyone else to take on a K9 PROJECT of his challenge-level without extremely serious consideration at every step in the journey
|
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: SebastienDELPEUT ]
#402234 - 10/06/2016 10:56 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 03-28-2013
Posts: 1571
Loc:
Offline |
|
Thanks Kelly for your post....so true...
It reminds me the Starfish story....
Once upon a time, there was an old man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach every morning before he began his work. Early one morning, he was walking along the shore after a big storm had passed and found the vast beach littered with starfish as far as the eye could see, stretching in both directions.
Off in the distance, the old man noticed a small boy approaching. As the boy walked, he paused every so often and as he grew closer, the man could see that he was occasionally bending down to pick up an object and throw it into the sea. The boy came closer still and the man called out, “Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?”
The young boy paused, looked up, and replied “Throwing starfish into the ocean. The tide has washed them up onto the beach and they can’t return to the sea by themselves,” the youth replied. “When the sun gets high, they will die, unless I throw them back into the water.”
The old man replied, “But there must be tens of thousands of starfish on this beach. I’m afraid you won’t really be able to make much of a difference.”
The boy bent down, picked up yet another starfish and threw it as far as he could into the ocean. Then he turned, smiled and said, “It made a difference to that one!”
adapted from The Star Thrower, by Loren Eiseley (1907 – 1977)
Oh yes, Loren Eiseley along with Aldo Leopold, became 2 of my Heart Mentors at university !!! Thank you for quoting him here, Sebastien
|
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402239 - 10/06/2016 06:34 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-18-2012
Posts: 220
Loc: San Jose, CA
Offline |
|
I haven't read through everyone's comments, nor do I remember who the OP is that you are speaking of, however, I think the OP was questioning why the person who represented themselves as having experience with 'aggressive' dogs (I put that in quotes because levels of aggression are relative - most dogs just need training and rules but are labeled aggressive) was coming to a message board with, "what do I go from here?" after only a few weeks of interaction with this dog. One must have the skill set and tenacity to handle a dog like she had described. And why would you, if you don't have the skill set, possibly jeopardize your human and dog family by pushing such a dog on everyone around you?
I think that's all the OP was questioning. It's unfortunate because this dog could possibly be the 'soulmate' for someone, but just to take on the project because you feel you have enough experience isn't always the best reason.
Tanya |
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Christina Stockinger ]
#402240 - 10/06/2016 06:38 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-18-2012
Posts: 220
Loc: San Jose, CA
Offline |
|
But I believe, that dogs are not born agressive, but made agressive by dog owners.
I will have to disagree with your belief...there are plenty of genetically aggressive dogs, those are the dogs you probably will never meet nor want to.
Tanya |
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402241 - 10/06/2016 08:45 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 12-28-2005
Posts: 2316
Loc:
Offline |
|
If a dog is wired wrong, sometimes the best thing for all involved is euthanasia.
But if there is some good quality of life possible and the person goes into it with their eyes wide open, then sometimes these dogs are diamonds in the rough. Or maybe they'll be teachers. Or best friends.
I've made choices with my dogs that others wouldn't. And I haven't regretted them. I treated for cancer when I knew it would be a battle soon lost. But in that time I saw my dog stay pretty darn happy 90% of the time, he lived the moment, I saw excitement and joy at being spoiled, I saw heart and try. It was the right decision for that situation. But that won't be right for everyone. And that's okay, too. We're each on a journey trying to do right by the animals we share our lives with.
|
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402256 - 10/08/2016 07:28 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-23-2015
Posts: 1619
Loc: Brazil, Bahia
Offline |
|
Tanya and Mara, thanks for informing me better. I've in between found website with highly interesting articles about this topic, which showed me that you're right.
I read, that vários illnesses can be a reason for aggression, amongst others hypothyroidism. Aggression can also be the result of full or partial seizures. Different forms of damage to certain areas of the brain, tumors, trauma can also result in aggression issues - often not discovered early enough.
A consultation with the Vet is then absolutely necessary, to ecxclude everything which could lead to terrible aggression accidents if not medically treated.
You're right, Tanya, some dogs are genetically predisposed to aggression. This may be the result of either certain not discovered medical problems or selective breeding for aggression found in “protection” or “fighting” breeds.
I think it is extremely difficult to decide in such cases if we should try to rehabilitate such a dog or not. I am frankly more pro. but with this I don't mean, that I with little experience would risk it without having clear medical indications.
In the majority of cases there is no genetical predisposition, but it Always can be. Anyone who wants to try this should be highly open-eyed and know exactly what he is undertaking.
If someone has experience, knowledge, very good training skills, advices or better regular assistance of a very good behaviorist. (Like good Vets - difficult to find) and is capable and willing to spend enough time and money, then it is certainly worth it.
“If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, then you are a leader” – Rudyard Kipling |
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402258 - 10/09/2016 12:35 AM |
Moderator
Reg: 06-14-2002
Posts: 7417
Loc: St. Louis Mo
Offline |
|
Many of the true "working dogs" in the past and some still today (thankfully) are bred for a certain amount of natural aggression but if a lack of clear headedness comes with the aggression it can be a danger even with an experienced handler.
Think about the the stereotypical, chained, junkyard dog that will bite anyone, anytime compared to the well trained Police K9.
The first very well may be created aggression and the latter could be trained, controlled genetic aggression.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402261 - 10/09/2016 08:23 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-23-2015
Posts: 1619
Loc: Brazil, Bahia
Offline |
|
Oh, that's an evil here! Dogs on short chains, almost the whole day or in a dark kennel for hours and hours or a group of so called protection dogs, running wildly along the fence, when someone passes by. Most of them completely untrained or wrongly trained.
On the other hand a whole lot of strays. I'm not really frightened of them. Only one thing scares me, when an owner allows his aggressive dog to go outside. This then we normally can not discriminate early enough if he is a stray or has an owner.
Then no knowledge about genetics or other reasons for aggressivity helps.
“If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, then you are a leader” – Rudyard Kipling |
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Christina Stockinger ]
#402264 - 10/09/2016 10:34 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 06-14-2002
Posts: 7417
Loc: St. Louis Mo
Offline |
|
When a dog with evil intent is going after a person I don't believe thinking if it's genetic or not comes into play.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
Top
|
Re: Just thinking....
[Re: Kelly ]
#402265 - 10/10/2016 06:11 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-23-2015
Posts: 1619
Loc: Brazil, Bahia
Offline |
|
No, no time to think, just try if we might reach and climb early enough the next tree! (But it's about 60 yrs ago when I did this last time.)
“If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs, then you are a leader” – Rudyard Kipling |
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.