Quote: Becky Niedbalka

Does anyone have any clue on how to train him to give us space? Is he ever going to get more doggy? He still doesn't get that he can wander and sniff, and is constantly just standing behind me.

I'm pretty sure by the term "doggy," you mean you want him to be less clingy with you and confident enough when outside to leave your side and do the things dogs instinctively do, like wander and sniff, checking perimeters, barking at intruders, chasing off little critters, and so on. I think that term may mean something slightly different to some on this board, but I get what you're saying. There are many who would love a dog who stays glued to their side all the time, but you should definitely keep working toward shaping him to be the kind of dog you want. He had a very different life for his first six or seven years, and his behaviors are deeply ingrained. Be patient and persistent, though, and hopefully his old life will start to fade from his memory and he will be enjoying his new family and lifestyle.

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

I guess he will be stuck with that on the job attitude? I am thinking since life was nothing but shows and crates, that he just refuses to go beyond that mentality. It has made marker training come to a stop, I only just ask the basic sit, settle down and potty words, I hope I am doing right by just letting him learn to examine his surroundings before starting to work with him!

It's not a conscious refusal on his part. It's just the behavior that was instilled in him all his life, up to now. Old dogs can definitely learn new tricks! Why has marker training come to a stop? I know about the difficulty in getting him to eat his meals anytime before 11 p.m., but does that mean he won't even take special treats during the day? Even a conformation ring dog usually loves bits of liver. There's no reason you can't continue marker training at the same time you're letting him get used to his new surroundings and lifestyle. Several short sessions throughout the day is what is commonly recommended for dogs new to that type of training, so five or so minutes at a time is enough for Jazz at this point.

This poor dog that eats his own feces- can you get some Forbid mailed to you?
https://www.amazon.com/Alpar-Forbid-12pkts/dp/B000RI63N8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479684317&sr=8-1&keywords=For-Bid

Cheri, he has zero drive, he will just stand, and wants a yummy treat without performing. He would be asked to sit, and smells the treat, tries to grab, and when he can't get it just says meh and shuts down. And if you use a non smelly treat, he refuses the treat period. After getting nipped, I keep my hand behind my back, to which he just tries to avoid the command completely.
I don't mind the stuck at my side, but with cutting wood in the bush, we almost have to leave him at home, as he stands too dangerously close to the saw, or a falling tree, and tying him up results in him yelping as he tangles himself up trying to follow us.
I honestly don't think they showed him much, he has zero tolerance for being handled, and constantly yelps when being groomed or having his nails trimmed.
He is a long work in progress!

He has been on poop pills, and they have not worked, when he is eating it, his lips are peeled back, as if he doesn't even like the taste. I don't get it, probably never will, and since he still refuses to poo in front of anyone, I just stand at the window for however long it takes him to poo, and if he tries to eat it before I can get out there to clean up and bring him in, he gets zapped with the shock collar.. This week has worked well for that, as I changed his potty time in the am, and make him wait until everyone leaves for the day. Thanks to that he is actually pooping now within 20 min, and after his first shock monday, avoids even looking at the damn stuff.

Yes Cheri! Completely agree with you! Bear season is over here in a few weeks, so I was planning on resuming our skidoo trail hikes, and taking the training out there, in short spurts. He seems to shut down at home more than outside the yard, and I think maybe if I just slowly bring the short burst closer to home, that maybe he would gain enough confidence to realize this yard is his yard, and not a judging ring?
He is worse in the house, and still is skittish, he would rather lay in one place all day, has zero confidence in wandering or relaxing, he only moves if he is left alone in a room, than his seperation anxiety rears, and he grabs things. He just grabs them, does not destroy them, minus one day we left him in the porch while I went to a PAL course, then, he crapped on the floor, and took my camera shade off the back of the futon and put it into his crap..statement or what. He has been crated when we leave ever since.

As to the "no drive" issue.

Have you tried a flirt pole with him?

Yes Bob, we tried, I made one myself, after watching some video's, and we attached different things, nothing will catch his eye, I even used my gloves at one point, since those are usually the things he grabs when alone. He shuts down to everything.
When giving him a treat such as a bully stick or a pigs ear, he accepts it, walks away, drops it, and goes back to his preferred nap place by the couch, and refuses to touch it. He refuses balls, kong toys, biscuits, and pizzle sticks. If I leave the house to burn things outside without bringing him along, he will refuse supper. He simply walks away and lays down.
I have him attached to a leash anytime he is out of the crate, in the house now and yard, as he always picks corners to curl up in, so that now he has to walk away to the length of the lead, and I ask him to sit instead of letting him curl up. Most times he will attempt to still lay, so I back up, and when he follows and sits, try to treat and praise, but he has zero interest in it.

His only appreciation for petting is a buttscratch. I save those for the grooming right now, as he hates the feeling of combs and clipping of the nails.
Honestly all I am looking for with him is too be a confident companion. I will protect him like I would my kids, which is why I leash him on trails, so he won't bolt and be killed. Silly him accepts the cracker pistol with no flinching, so I can be confident that as long as I have a hold on him I can deal with the wildlife, but I want him to cease being a ghost, and start learning there is a world around him that can be explored, noises that should be heard!
On walks, he only relaxes and let's the tong loll, after 30-40 min. Off leash he walks on my heels, literally, and when I stop, he lays down..a few weeks ago, we were In the vicinity of a bear, and the wind was coming our way. He did not smell the bear, or see it..I do wish by next year, he can let his nose loose to test the wind, and perhaps even just perk his face that way!

Edited by Becky Niedbalka (11/21/2016 12:10 AM)
Edit reason: fixed spelling mistakes!

I feel for you my older one is very like your boy. He was never abused and I got him as a pup. He has no food drive or toy drive. Training was very frustrating.

He is still on the thin side but the only way to get him to do anything was to skip a few meals and the only that he was getting was out of my hand. I was feeling bad for him but it worked. He was not getting much at all for a bit of time.

Canned food is what work for him. I would scoop mini spoons out for him.

To this day, his favorite activity is sleeping at someone feet. He does not do well with change, so I we go away he stay home with a person he knows.

My suggestion for both above would be to try and find some sort of high value food that the dog will respond to and do marker training.

I would wean the dog off hand feeding asap or it will be that much harder to get them to eat out of a dish.

It can be difficult to get a shy dog to relax and enjoy just having fun with you bit that's the secret to getting them to loosen up.

If it's a genetic issue it can be more difficult.

Oh I would never hand feed either he eats what is in the bowl, or he waits til tmrw you guys taught me well on that!

I am loving the remote collar tho he responds better I think, not knowing it is coming from me. He refuses to go back to his poo now, and places himself at the gate door, to be let out after he craps

Today is his shat day, I had to go do some mouse poo removal at a cabin down the road, so had to crate him, so he is giving me the silent treatment, and would not eat or drink.. Sometimes I think he has woman genes! Accusing eyes lol!

He is super happy as long as you don't ask anything of him, his tail has been trained to stay at his back leg, so it is hard to read when he is truly enjoying himself, but once we head out of the yard he holds it out slow but steady, I hope! We start training in 2 weeks, by than the ice should have frozen enough for the polar bears, and the temps should have dropped enough that the black bears and grizzlies are denning..I bought a new treat called a woofer, its a ground beef dehydrated patty.. I think I found my dream treat. They look like old Mcdonalds patties, arrived today, and tho he attempted to take my fingers off, almost stayed in a down until I released him. Just a few pop ups, but like I tell my kids..he needs to learn like a puppy. He seems to really like them, I broke it into tiny bits, too much of a good thing makes him go off on it. Going to try them on friday when I start skidoo training him.. He doesn't like anything that drives in snow deeper than his toes..sometime I wonder why I get the ones who def are not lovers of snow!