Quote: Kelly

Toni ate the bed one day when we were On Vacation and the dog sitter left her in the house- she had been fine the whole week before, but at that time she felt she needed to kill whatever monster was in the bed. And she did a right thorough job of it too.

None of my dogs really went through any rebellion phase or anything like that. They learned their places in the pack and were content with it.

Ditto on learning their place as pups!

I share your opinion absolutely. Mine leasrned it much later. They understood the command quite rapidly, but they don't keep it for much time.. I don't get it what I'm doing wrong, because strangely they have vey solid sit-,down-, standstays.

Sit, down, stay are obedience commands.

Everyday manners are a management issue,

Consistency with the dogs in daily life gives that control where the dog will be more consistent in what you expect from them.

I'm more demanding in the precision I expect from a competiton command as opposed to a every day command BUT I expect compliance in both.

That's a part of management as opposed to training.

It just doesn't have to be so precise in daily life.

Why is this not an obedience command, as they have to obey?

I also don't ask for a precise formal sit etc. like in other siruations, but I change a bit between the different positions.. Mostly I let them choose, because I think on their bed they should be allowed to make themselves comfortable. Only strict rule is go on the bed and stay there until I release.

I can distract them with doing silly thing, making them wait, going away.about 10 m. They are also godd in selfcontrol. I can put a piece a meat directly in front of their nose or hide varios ones around them, say "lesve it" and they don't touch it. Then I say "find it" and they go searching.

The problem is with going out of sight. It works for two or three seconds, but then they tend to break the place command.. To stay on their place seems to be boring for them, unless they are anyway ready to take a nap.. Does this mean, I should start training this, when theyare already lazy and then increase to work from this point on towards their more active phases?

Christina when I said they learned their place as pups I meant their pack ranking- not the place command... As a management issue pack rank is important to learn at a young age so you don't have as much rebellion when they get older....

It's more about NILIF.

Nothing In Life Is Free.

They don't walk through a gate before you and all the daily behaviours you don't allow just because they want to do it.

It's working on "your" leadership skills and consistency in that is as important as any thing you want to train them.

Without that leadership everything you train them to do will become optional to them.

Hopefully someone else can explain that better then me.

Thanks, Kelly, I finally grasped it.. So I misunderstood you. But don't they learn the ranking already with their mother and the siblings? Of course we have to contribute to this continuosly, especially when they have to adapt themselves to a new pack.

Thanks, Bob! NILIF was an early experience of life for myselt, puh!
I don't think I practice NILIF with my dogs. They never get anything during the day, unless they've followed a command. I never spoil them with treats or such.

No, you're explaining things perfectly. Probably I have a bit a long lead in understanding, sorry. I simply don't get it, why they don't learn to stay on their bed, when I'm out of sight for a bit a longer. As three of them don't do it, I know it must be an error of myself. Lack of leadership, yes.

But darned, how? I'm absolutely willing to see my errors and to learn out of them. but i just can't see where they are in this situation. Consistency with NILIF it can't be. They never get reinforced in any manner , when they don't fulfill a task. And I have trained this like a fool. No misunderstanding, please! I don't train this for a long time. If they don't get it, they don't get it and I try it again in another session.

Obviosly I'm too dense. I certainly don't want to get on your nerves. So let's break up this topic. I guess I'll have to observe myself better and find out where the error could be.

Staying in place out of sight of the owner is a hard concept for many dogs to grasp- they figure you are gone so the exercise must be over. I would practice more with you there but doing other things- like working in the garden ignoring them... And release them at varied times so they never know when the release is coming. Slowly work into stepping out of sight for a second or two and working that time up gradually. Switch it up as well so that you are not always going out if sight before they get released... Always keep them guessing.

Another thing is to always reward them in place so when you give your mark they are still on the bed in place- this is important.

There are many NILIF sites online ... this one is short and succinct.

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/training_nothing_in_life_is_free.html

 Quote: Kelly

Staying in place out of sight of the owner is a hard concept for many dogs to grasp- they figure you are gone so the exercise must be over. I would practice more with you there but doing other things- like working in the garden ignoring them... And release them at varied times so they never know when the release is coming. Slowly work into stepping out of sight for a second or two and working that time up gradually. Switch it up as well so that you are not always going out if sight before they get released... Always keep them guessing.

Another thing is to always reward them in place so when you give your mark they are still on the bed in place- this is important.

Great pointers!