<<BTW, I should take the comment out of that HGH competition tape where I said "every good dog will kill one sheep every year" - even though I later mention that this was told to me by a drunken herder at the competition. >>

I know that you later apologized for that comment. Ironically, that was the part that was actually correct but misquoted .

Thanks,
Ulf

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Ulf Kintzel
White Clover Sheep Farm
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<<BTW, I should take the comment out of that HGH competition tape where I said "every good dog will kill one sheep every year" - even though I later mention that this was told to me by a drunken herder at the competition. >>

I know that you later apologized for that comment. Ironically, that was the part that was actually correct but misquoted AND never understood by you.

Anyway, folks, Ed censores some of my replies. This would be one of them:

<<and he should go back the the DDR where he belongs. >>
<<Mr. Kintzel - go back to Germany. >>

I am sorry, I am here to stay. However, if you look for a list where the moderator doesn't allow personal attacks and doesn't participate in them like Ed does please subscribe to .


Thanks,
Ulf

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Ulf Kintzel
White Clover Sheep Farm
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Hi folks, I hope I could clarify some of the wrong statements that have been made about me. Thank you Ed for letting me use your list to do so.
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Ulf Kintzel
White Clover Sheep Farm

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Now that you have proceeded to proclaim your inocense, virginity and honesty I am waiting for Dorit VanderWilden and Dottie Seuter to come in and procalim that you are the greatest thing to sheep herding since rubber boots.

Ok Ladies - its your turn to come front stage and protect your man.

Mr. Frawley,
Since I have not met you before I do have to thank you for providing such an interesting introduction. I'm sure you are confident in your reputation and through your comments regarding Ulf Kintzel, I see your are happy to cofirm some opinions, form others and to provide a peek into your personal style. Being a business person myself, I am acutely aware of the power of my public statements. First impressions are often long lasting.
I am so suprised to see you violated your own agreement when joining this list of refraining from character assasination, inuendo, sexual content etc., oh well.
Regarding Ulf Kintzel, I am a student and I regard him as a friend as well. It is reasonable to ask for a persons credentials and to question authority. Since you have no personal information to rely on, repeating hearsay and relying on information of others who have not met him is certainly without merit. So, thanks for the opportunity to provide feedback from someone with first hand knowledge.
I would say that Ulf is indeed a thorough, demanding instructor. He insists on comittment and serious effort. He makes the kind of effort he requires from his students and more. He is sure and outspoken when he is right and looks for information when he doesn't know. He is always on the side of the sheep and the dogs and teaches us to be shepherds as well as dog people comitted to herding. He has brought to this country the essence of what created the German Shepherd Dog, lucky for us. He has influenced many and inspires at least me,(and I know others) to do right and fear no one. He makes a person think.
Also, regarding his history, I will be presumptuous and say he has seen and done more than any of us will ever have the fortune or misfortune to experience. I applaud his courage. When you have walked in anothers shoes, you will have the right to comment on a personal style. How privileged we are to have freedom of comment.
I am relieved to know he will continue to live in our country of freedom and opportunity. Should he leave, it would be a significant loss to us all.
BTW, the earrings are rather nice.
Debra Feliziani
Dog Works... Canine Form & Function

Isn't that sweeeeeet !!!

I guess the lists that Kintzel posts his comments on about me to don't have agreements.

Debra,

Ulf was doing the same thing you accuse Ed to be doing. He was slamming someone he never met. The nasty comments started from Ulf by saying things about Ed on other lists.

Here in the U.S. slamming someone's work on something IS slamming them. Your comment about Ed was indeed an attack on Ed himself. You obiviously didn't give it any thought at all. As far as his tapes go, they are good and his sales show it. If your so mad about the way it was done put out a freaking herding tape yourself.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

OK, what a fun thread!!!
Can i ask a question though about herding. I live in the southwest where the big concern is guarding the sheep from depredations. Shepherds don't hang with the sheep. The herds seem to be scattered for grazing and then round up more like cattle when they need to be moved. I see Border Collies a few Aussie's, and never a GSD involved in the work.
Is the tending style of Herding useful in North America? Are the character traits associated with its use important to the GSD? Why bother with a USA Herding program? Is promoting the program useful to the GSD's future as a working dog in North America?
Now don't jump me 'cause I ask such questions. I wonder if such endeavors by the USA are in the best interest of the work the GSD actually is performing in North America.
I am also sparked to ask this question since the SV produced a laser light show in Augsburg, 1999 at the 100th anniversary of the SV that had scenes of herding, agility, family views, and all kinds of cute images. They just had nothing about protection sports or police work. Maybe the only reason herding is still around in the SV is as a public relations tool and has nothing to do with the charcter and development of the GSD?

Kevin--

These are not stupid questions you ask. I think you could find a lot of the answers on Ellen Nickelsberg's site (http://www.german-shepherdherding.com). Ellen has worked with guide dogs at the Fidelco school and has also been a Schutzhund trainer, in addition to many years as a trainer and breeder of herding GSDs.