John

I agree with what you say.

In a round about way it is what i was trying to convey just not very well.

Sounds like a great dog He is amazing - we all watch in awe every time he works. I can only dream of handling such a dog!

I think many dogs just see biting sleeves as fun.They bite the sleeve and get so pround that they did good.

My amstaff loves to have tug o war,biting a sleeve or wahatever.I do not think he use aggression,only preydrive.You can see on the dog that he has fun.

In a quote from Michael:

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Many females cannot work in aggression. They cannot handle the stress.

Is this a true statement? Most females can't work in aggression as well as males? Wouldn't this be more related to the genetics of the dog instead of the gender? I don't know and I am curious to hear a little more about this. Is this the reason there are not as many females doing patrol work?

I could not disagree more!! It falls backon your training more then the sex of the dog. I had a female in both Afgan and Iraq and she out worked most males there. I have a female Mal now that I train in ASR and she is a pistol. If you train the right you will have a nice dog. Now in my experience you don't have to correct them as much or as hard as a male. One that does will run the risk of ruining the dog but other then that I prefer a female over a male anyday.

I would like to hear others opinions on this. I feel with the training the dogs recieve being rewarded for being calm on the sleeve, and the amount of repetitions of the exercises that it takes to get the points you need are enough to water down most dogs. I think that aggression is innate within the dog, and no amount of training is going to really help those dogs that only show aggression when aggitated fairly harshly. Then it goes back to the high number of repetitions it takes to get the good points, taking away from the good work you have done to have the dog show aggression. In a good dog, this is a balancing act that is hard not to fall from. Does this make sense to you?

I have to agree with Matt big time here. There are some awesome females out there. One thing is they get worked, and you don't see them on the trial field because they are usually brood bitches. It seems Taylor is looking at it from a schutzhund point of view, with that said. How many of them today male or female are being worked in defense? I can tell you that we have some very nice females training in ASR (which promotes serious dogs) that are very serious and very intense. I am inclined to say that if a dog period has a high threshold for stress, and prey can carry them through hell and back, who cares, I also, would be inclined to lean towards saying hell that might just be a good thing, if my dog could fight the devil and be whistling dixie as she fans herself with her tail, I don't care, and I'm sure the SOB getting bit wouldn't care what drive she was in either,LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> However, it's not that common that you find a prey dog that can work through hell and back, and get stabbed, shot, head cut off whatever and keep it up. So thats why I believe the defense has to be worked, so that when the dog starts feeling like hell this prey isnt' worth it anymore they dont' cut and run, atleast they are groomed for a fight when the prey starts whipping back on them.
But I have to say I have had the opportunity to see some very, very nice females, they are out there, they are IMO not in the public eye as much as the males, and also how many that has it in their blood and bones to be serious working females, are actually worked to their potential due to being temperment tested and selected as brood bitches and left at that? I have a female now from Fontain D'or Working Malinois kennels that I couldn't be happier with. They are out there IMO

Thank you Matt and Chris. This is what I thought. The genetics, development and training of the dog is what mattered, not the sex of the dog. Thanks for the input.

Curtis

Since we are on the subject of good females and females that show aggression, what females in the last 3 years would you say is working in aggression? What females at recent Schutzhund, Ring or in other sports that have been in the public eye would anyone consider a female with true aggression in her work.

Karmen,

The one female that I have liked in the last few years was Bara from Vicki Keller. Do not know if Vicki still has her female named Laska (sp?)- husband saw this dog 1.5 years ago and loved her.

 Quote:

I have to agree with Matt big time here. There are some awesome females out there. One thing is they get worked, and you don't see them on the trial field because they are usually brood bitches. It seems Taylor is looking at it from a schutzhund point of view, with that said. How many of them today male or female are being worked in defense? I can tell you that we have some very nice females training in ASR (which promotes serious dogs) that are very serious and very intense. I am inclined to say that if a dog period has a high threshold for stress, and prey can carry them through hell and back, who cares, I also, would be inclined to lean towards saying hell that might just be a good thing, if my dog could fight the devil and be whistling dixie as she fans herself with her tail, I don't care, and I'm sure the SOB getting bit wouldn't care what drive she was in either,LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> However, it's not that common that you find a prey dog that can work through hell and back, and get stabbed, shot, head cut off whatever and keep it up. So thats why I believe the defense has to be worked, so that when the dog starts feeling like hell this prey isnt' worth it anymore they dont' cut and run, atleast they are groomed for a fight when the prey starts whipping back on them.
But I have to say I have had the opportunity to see some very, very nice females, they are out there, they are IMO not in the public eye as much as the males, and also how many that has it in their blood and bones to be serious working females, are actually worked to their potential due to being temperment tested and selected as brood bitches and left at that? I have a female now from Fontain D'or Working Malinois kennels that I couldn't be happier with. They are out there IMO

I am not only looking at this from a Schutzhund prospective. I also have never said that there are no females out there that can work in real aggression, but I still think that the ones that can are few and far between. I will agree that there are more female Mals that can do the work if you want to stero-type, but I would venture to say that there are very few females that are capable of top Schutzhund work, let alone patrol work for a Police k-9. It is not only the heat cycles that stop people that are not intrested in breeding from using bitches for the work.