Hello all,
I have 5 kids ages 15 to 5 and have a GSD male and a male Golden. The GSD is 2, and the Golden 11.5 . Both of my dogs are excellent with my kids and their friends. The GSD entered our family when he was 7 weeks old. I have never had a problem with the dogs with my kids but we had our GSD protect/shield the kids friends from their own parents when they came to pick up their kids. He needed to be reassured that these strange adults could waltz away with these little ones with out a challenge.

But there is a difference in your situation. If you got your 2 year old dog as a pup, then your youngest was 3 and your oldest 12. That's a much better age range, as the children would have been out of diapers and not toddlers. The golden, who is 11.5, has grown up with the children, which is different than bringing a new dog into an existing family.

I, too, have kids, and it's not the idea of having kids and dogs that I think is problematic, but the idea of 7 kids under the age of 10, a few still in diapers, and bringing a new dog into the mix. Just waiting a couple of years until the kids are older will make a huge difference. I cannot imagine having this many small children and having ANY time to train a dog. There's mouthing and teething, and jumping up, and housebreaking, and all of those things you must teach a pup, which take time and a lot of energy.

Anyway, I'll stop now. I just think it's better to wait a few years.

Well there were six of us kids and the youngest of us was 1 year old when we got our first dog -- and it went quite well -- but the general warning is sound. The part I haven't mentioned is that the lifestyle and culture meant that there were several adults in the house, so that lessened the burden of running the house and keeping us out of trouble considerably. I imagine that the lady of the house is the only adult around for most of the time, which must stretch her pretty thin.

It *is* an additional responsibility -- the question is, do they know what they're getting into? No dog is fun when you don't have the time, knowhow and patience to properly care for it and integrate it into your house.

They might want to test drive by being a foster family to a laid-back rescued dog that has tested as being very good with children.

And I'm with Joy on not automatically recommending a Golden or Lab. Not only are there any number of horror story ones out there, but that legendary calm develops with time, lots of time so if you don't go into onwnership with the right attitude, you're in for an unpleasant shock.

I'm not saying b/c these folks have a pack of kids that they shouldn't have a dog. Something tells me that *Curtisoms* kids aren't as out of control as the ones in this household have been described.
And, keep in mind, kids really do travel in packs. Anticipate that there will usually be more than the resident kids around, neighbors, schoolfriends, cousins, etc.
If they can't control their kids, how could they control a dog?

The key to my post was when I said th get a Golden from a "sound breeder". The more I think about this though, I'm starting to feel that 7 kids is just too large of a stretch. There are just too many things that could go wrong. What happens when Mom or Dad think that everything is under control and one of the little ones opens the front door and the dog runs out into the road and gets hit by a car? I'm starting to agree with Joy. These people should just concentrate on raising their kids.

To add one more thing, any dog breed that is over bred due too popularity and greed will suffer. I know no less than 8 people personally who got their Goldens fom the breeder I got mine from and they are all GREAT dogs. Yes, there are nigtmares out there. Nothing is a sure thing. Golden or Lab breeders who breed sound dogs would be the only place I would recommend to anyone. It's a sad state of affairs when we should stop recommending two of the best known dog breeds for families with children because of idiots out to make a buck. Unfortunately, this is the real world we live in!

Thanks for everyones input, I might of overstated the case re. the kids behaviour, they're good kids but with that many kids there is always some 'high jinks' going on.The mother did a masters degree in physics part time while she produced 7 kids.

Ive heard beagles are a good big family dog as well. They've been bred to live in large hunting packs for a long time so the individuals who showed agrression to other pack members were culled.

The family in question has some security concerns, not high level but enough to have them consididering their options. If it wasnt for that aspect then for sure a goldie, beagle or lab would be the way to go no question.

I agree totally a dog from hunting bred stock is also a good idea even if it will never retrieve a duck or rabbit in its life. If it has the nerves to have shotguns going off around it, riding around in boats, getting into icey cold water etc. then it will have the nerves to be a family pet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As the Russians say, you prepare your sleigh in summer and your plough in winter. If they have immediate security concerns, they probably don't have much use of a dog to solve them. It takes at least two years of hard work for a properly-selected puppy to grow into a good serious protector.

I think that a well-trained adult dog is prohibitively expensive and a 'green' prospect...hmm, there aren't that many that fit right into a family situation. And both need a LOT of *quality* work, albeit of shorter duration than a puppy.

So, they need to address their immediate safety needs in other ways.

Long term, a good Chesapeake Bay Retriever would be an excellent idea. They do make pretty serious dogs -- probably not PSD serious, but very acceptable nevertheless for the private citizen (and I understand that some can exhibit dominance aggression) but they're good family dogs for all that. They're not so hideously popular that good examples will be hard to find, yet not so rare that they'll be on a two year waiting list, though they should expect at least a six month wait for a good puppy to come along.

I admit to feeling a bit surprised by the responses to the question of introducing a working bloodline GSD into a household with many children. I've been reading much of the posted discourse across the message board, and have been surprised by the commentary... with the references to aggression, dominance issues and general behavior problems with GSDs- problems confronted by owners with significant experience in handling and training- I begin to feel that my dog must be a different breed entirely.

Other than owning a Leerburg GSD, I have no handling experience. In a nutshell, I am a homeschooling mother of five children, and everyone here- kids and animals alike, husband too, most of the time- know that I am Alpha Mom. I could not possibly run this household any other way. Mutual respect and common curtesy is the bottom line, and I daresay that my five-year-old, unneutered male GSD is the best-mannered of the lot.

Blitzen came home with us when my children were 1, 3, 5 and 7. He was fantastically mouthy, but never nippy. He did not jump on any of us. He understood, even as a rambunctious pup, that my baby could be easily knocked over and showed an awareness of this fact in his interactions and contact with the littlest guy. They grew up together, and Blitzen never showed any sign of aggressing, despite standard toddler behaviour from my son.

The bigger challenge came later, with my last son. He is a very spunky character, here to put me in my place for feeling overly-confident in regard to the good-manners of my oldest children. My brood is now 3, 6, 9, 11 and 13. The three-year-old is beginning to show sign of civilizing, but he was truly obnoxious to Blitzen for about 1 1/2 years. I sincerely cannot describe how offensive he was... I monitored, I was concerned, I didn't "allow" it, I corrected my child... but it happened. I was not casual: ONE GROWL and Blitzen would have been living with my mother until my son behaved better. While some may feel I acted irresponsibly, I sincerely watched for any indication that Blitzen's temper was wearing thin, and was unwilling to remove him from his family as long as he was willing to be tolerant.

Blitzen was a mountain of patience and never, never even once growled at the toddler. I must emphasize that he is a solid, intelligent, composed, confident and gorgeous animal. He can open almost every door in my house, including several knobs. He strikes as wonderfully friendly, takes many rides with us as we errand and go to the parks, and loves to accompany my husband to the office, (where strangers come and go.)

Meanwhile, I have had several encounters with unknown "intruders" on my property while my husband was away (I live in the country)... Blitzen was amazing! He morphed into macho protector and herded the offenders into their vehicles, and off the property. He is skilled at finding the location in the house which will allow him to stand between his family and any possible entrance to our home; he is a vigilant guard, yet has never aggressed against or acted "nervous" with a welcome guest. In fact, I do not believe I have ever seen him nervous, just confident and in charge- yet deferential to me, to my husband and to my children.

While most who use this discussion board seem focused on a working relationship with their GSD, I sincerely hope you do not neglect to recognize the potential these bloodlines have in regard to families. Perhaps unintentionally, the features which have been bred into the working GSD- or at least some of them- are ideal for families. In fact, I am seeking a Leerburg female now.

By the way... my dog is Holly X Chucho, Leerburg Kennel.

Liz

Liz,

Great post! I agree with you. I know that the best family dog I ever had was a GSD. I'll NEVER forget that dog. He displayed many of the same behaviors you described. Thank God there are still reputable breeders out there like Ed, so people can enjoy what this great breed was meant and still can be. Unfortunately, bad experiences stick in people's minds more than good ones. It seems everyone has heard a story about someone having a nasty, vicious GSD. Its really a shame.