I've got three little ones ages two, four and seven. Before we brought our puppy into the house (six weeks ago) my kids would never approach a dog. In fact given thier height, they were often intimidated by dogs. Now that they have grown accustomed to our lovable pup, they are much more eager to approach all dogs. I have been working on them with regard to the dangers of approaching animals that they are unfamiliar with but it's not easy. Most dog owners are not as responsible or as intelligent as members of this board. Most dog owners let thier dogs go off leash at the park! The dogs don't have the slightest training.
I am very concerned about my kids and always head them off at the pass when I see another dog in the area. We have not run into a sharp dog (yet), but all it takes is one. Apologies don't mean much when a kids cheek is hanging off.

A dog-training friend of mine came up with what I thought was a very good idea for state or provincial legislation. It would (eventually) get a lot of the dog-owning idiots out of the picture entirely.

Here's how it would work: Each potential dog owner would be given a lengthy test on canine behavior and canid/human interaction. Those scoring below 50% would not be allowed to get a dog, and would have to wait another year before taking the test again (kinda like the bar exam).

Those scoring between 50% and 90% would be allowed a small- or medium-sized dog--what Jose Luiz on this board referred to as "Little Buddies" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In order to get a GSD, Rottweiler, Mal, Dobe, or other guard breed, you would need to score 90% or better.

Hey, it ain't perfect, but it would sure as hell be a start!

Pete Felknor

The only problem with that is eventually you would have to worry about who gives the test and if THEY even know what the hell they are talking about. :rolleyes:

Hey , I like that test idea!!! It sounds great to me...... By the way, as for the parents who don't watch their child, has anyone considered that perhaps child protective services can be called to investigate negligent parenting? Certainly letting such a young child run around unattended is negligent behavior!

Regarding the children in my neighbourhood (I live in a court) discussed in a previous post..

They loved Max when he was a puppy but when he got older one little girl, then 4 or 5, called him over by name when my dad had him loose in the front yard (with him of course) . I was at work and he said that Max bounded over (like all enthusiastic one-year-olds) and knocked her down. She got very scared and her parents were really upset. She avoided Max wherever possible for the next year, but then began a process of teasing him through the fence with the other neighbourhood kids that lasted several months.

Max, naturally, started to become quite agitated when these kids came close to the fence. When I noticed the problem the following summer I undertook a campaign of dog education to protect my dog. I took the dog out on leash and explained a lot of things to them. Territorial aggression, etc. Then I showed off all his tricks. This little girl is now 11 and where once she was the neighbourhood ringleader (actually she still is) now she makes sure all the other kids know the rules and stay away from the fence when he is in the backyard. Max is now very calm around these kids, but it took me awhile to change his mind. He barks at them when he is in the backyard, but I can tell he doesn't have the same attitude.

As for your poor GSD and the terrible 3-year-old, my sympathies. She is too young to listen to reason and the parents don't care. Just goes to show you that some owners should never have dogs just as some parents should never have children.

By the way I like your name!
Melissa B.

We have called Child Protective Services & the police, etc. The problem is that we live in an area where the authorities are too busy dealing with drugs & violent crimes to pay too much attention to anything else. They have come out, but the situation remains the same. It is a real problem.

Just for the record, my aforementioned GSD is not the result of poor handling. He was socialized and obedience trained. Although a little kid-shy after the problems with the neighbors child, he was not much of a problem. Unfortunately, he is the victim of something called a rabies miasm, which is a condition where his vital force believes that he has rabies, and he reacts accordingly. Essentially, he had a terrible reaction of his rabies vaccination. It's a frightening & fascinating condition that is very difficult to cure.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. There are many kids in our neighborhood who are extremely respectful of my dogs. In addition to the dog mentioned above, I also own a fantastic little Leerburg bitch who absolutely loves children. Most of the kids, even if they pet/play with her regularly, will always ask if it's ok before they pet her. On the condition that the children ask their parents, I will almost always allow them to approach my female. She loves the attention as much as they love giving it to her. This has also served as an opportunity to talk to them about how all dogs are not the same and shouldn't be approached unless you know the dog, in case their parents haven't taught them that. Can you believe that there have been some parents who have been stupid enough to walk past with their children, and the parents will actually start growling & barking at the dogs!?!? This completely blows my mind.

 Quote:

Can you believe that there have been some parents who have been stupid enough to walk past with their children, and the parents will actually start growling & barking at the dogs!?!?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Unbelievable!!! People will never cease to amaze me. One of my dogs is a rottie/lab mix and to the average Joe Shmo looks like a black lab which they immediately think is friendly. Parents let their children run up to him with out EVER asking...I have always casually walked off a few steps and kindly ask them not to pet him.

My daughter is 5 years old and has been taught to ALWAYS ask the owner before approaching any dog...as well as being taught proper treatment of all animals which is reinforced on a daily basis.

On several occassions we have been in the vet's office when other dogs are present. She asks the owners if she can pet their dogs and they LAUGH and say something to the effect of...'oh, you don't have to ask honey..he/she is VERY friendly' and they just don't *get it* when I say she HAS to ask first because alot of dogs ARE NOT SO FRIENDLY. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Pete,
Your post caught my attention. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My question to you is simple????
A GOOD START TO WHAT??
WHERE WILL IT END!!!

I'm the first to say that all dog owners should at least be smarter then there K-9's.
The problem I see with any type of legislation of this type is that hardly ever are the lawmakers knowledgable.

This is something that we as responsible dog owners need not promote. we will always have the not so smart human to deal with.

I like the IDEA of educating the children in the schools so we don't have to depend on their parents.

We all need to take lead in EDUCATING the CHILDREN

"WE need to protect our K-9 companions by keeping the uneducated safe"

Butch--

My friend and I kinda envisioned a scenario in which knowledgeable dog owners--ESPECIALLY people involved in dog sports--would be the ones drafting the "dog exam". And I don't mean the chi-chi animal behaviorialists or clicker trainers. I mean people who work with dogs all the time. Experienced police K-9 handlers, SAR folks, Schutzhund, ring, and obedience competitors. Stock dog trainers. You get the idea. People who know what the hell goes on in a dog's mind.

Will this happen? I doubt it. It's a pipe dream.

To answer your question: Where will it end? The way things are going now, I can tell you where it will end. It will end with protection sports being outlawed and with widespread bans on several breeds of dogs--probably including the one you yourself own. It will end with know-nothing idiots telling the rest of us what we can and cannot do with dogs. Think about it.

Pete Felknor

Pete,

I don't think that the necessary end point is breed bans and outlawing of protection sports. Here in Phoenix the news station I watch has run severl stories on protection dogs and dealing with aggression in dogs. They used people that train protection dogs and demonstrate that an out of control dog isn't a protection dog. They pointed out that most dog bites aren't form a trained dog, but the dog tied in the back yard, ignored and not trained.

I was kind of suprized the first time they did this last year when the Pits killed the guy breaking into a buisness. They did the same thing after the verdict in S.F. to point out that properly trained protection dogs will not behave in the manner of those dogs. They also demonstrated several dogs doing bites and then the dogs interacting with the reporter after doing the bites. It was very well handled.

The group I train with and the Local P.D. put on demo's every couple of months at a local grocery store. There are usually all 4 police dogs, several of the club dogs at different stages of training, and at the last 2 SAR dogs. All the dogs are worked to demonstrate how the dogs are trained and to provide people an opportunity to be with the dogs and demonstrate how safe they are. It is starting to get to the point that there are groupies for the dogs that come for every demo.

It has been fun to watch the reactions of people to the dogs. People will be petting and playing with a dog, and then they watch that dog go out and make a bite. Sometimes it takes them a few minutes to be willing to go back and see the same dog they were just petting after the dog has worked. They will usually go back to the dog and tell them what a fine job they just did. They are getting the idea that these dogs are very safe and that the control of the handlers is good. There is a usually a demonstration where the dog is sent at an unprotected agitator and called off before the dog gets there. So the idea that these dogs are under complete control by their handlers is demonstrated.

Getting trained dogs out in public where people can interact in a close proximity will be a big portion of protecting breeds and protection work. Usually we have out all of the "bad" breeds, Pitts, GSD's, Rotts, and some of the other Mastiff types like a Cane Corso. I will say it again, if we want to protect breeds and protection work we need to educate the public about what these dogs do. Let the public see the dogs in action and then let them interact with the dogs. If we don't show what we do, and hide the dogs away we will be under constant attack with breed bans and attempts to prohibit protection training.