I really liked that movie.I think movies like "k-9" endear the public to police dogs and not the negative crap they get from the press. Ikor posted that Star was Don Yarnell's dog and he helped train him for the movie scenes.He sold the dog to the Kansas city police dept after the movie.

Milt

Cool Butch,
I am sure dogs think... it is east to tell when you have a dog that thinks about the command you just gave him.. "Hmmmm do command, get treat, don't do command, get correction" There can be no dought that dogs think, problem solving isthinking. You can almost see them thinking about stuff... like when you are watching tv and the dog is just staring at you... he is thinking about you, waiting for any reason to please you, comfort you or protect you.

People who say dogs don't think are silly IMHO how can anybody even consider dogs don't think..true, they might not be good at it but think never the less.

Of course dogs think and problem solve! I was amazed at all the things I could teach my dog (especially picking up objects, including things like the TV remote, pens, cutlery for my mother who had MS), but I was even more amazed at the things he learned himself. He watches TV if there are animals on and all of the popular commercials that have dogs in them he knows by the opening bars of music. He'll come running from anywhere in the house if he hears that music. I didn't teach him that. He spells too. I had to start spelling his favourite treats because he taught himself the words. Now he knows the spelled words as well. He also taught himself that if he wants to go for a walk or out with us, he gets his own collar and brings it to you. Many, many other things they teach themselves when you don't really think they are paying attention. That's problem solving and true thinking, even if it is reward stimulated.

Dogs think - my smart dog is always thinking about how to get my less-smart (okay dumb) dog to do what she wants. Just last night she didn't want him to come over to the couch and get pets from the neighbor's little girl (she wanted to keep them for herself.) She knows she can't growl around children, so instead of growling to keep him away, she pretended to go for his ball. That totally distracted him and he ran over and grabbed it and forgot about getting pets. She wasn't a bit interested in his ball - she doesn't even care for balls. I was amazed to see that she was smart enough to actually think of a way to intentionally fool another creature. She is better at making the other dog do things than I am.

I don't think it's a question of whether or not they think, but HOW they think. Attributing "human" motivations to them is where I see a lot of misinterpretation of the canine thought process.

I can see where that could be a problem, people love their animals so much, the actually begin to attribute "human" motivations to their dogs... an easy mistake to make, I bieleve this is where we begin to see bad training occur, people think dogs are people and expect then to want to learn the same way we do... which is not the case. Am I right? I can't tell you how many people I have seen at parks, saying things like "FIDO! Get off that man, he does not want you licking his ice cream cone!" and they really get angry at the dog becasue Fido won't listen. Then they grab Fido off and bend down and give Fido a 10 min talking to on how it is rude to jump on people and lick their ice cream."

Being the type of guy I am I asked this woman what she was doing, she replied "I'm training Fido not to jump on people and take food" I about fell over laughing... I got a really sharp glare of course from this woman, but I couldn't help it!

Bu the moral of this story is , the woman actually thought the dog was like a child...and "training" the same way you would a 4 year old.

God that was a funny day.. I'm still laughing at that one.

Lonny, I think it's in human nature to anthropomorphize animals, especially dogs because we coexist so closely with them. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, some of the greatest bonds are formed between dog and owner when they are treated as thinking, emoting beings instead of automatons or beasts of burden. The danger is (as in your case of the woman and dog) when someone refuses to train their animals to be acceptable members of society. Dogs need love, but they need structure, commands, things to do and a leader. I treat my dog like a king and a friend. He's been everywhere with me (banks, stores, doctor's office, car shops, nursing homes, etc.), but I also expect him to obey first time when I issue a command.

This is an excellent quote:
"Today the scientific community is beginning to reevaluate its traditional assumptions about the intelligence of nonhuman animals, including dogs, and a growing number of experts believe that canine(s) are anything but automatons. Love, in fact, appears to be the key to unlocking a flood of creative, emotional expression in dogs. The more intimate and interactive the relationship between human and dog-the more overt and complex canine behavior becomes..."
By Mary Elizabeth Thurston in The Lost History of the Canine Race (1996)

 Quote:

Lonny, I think it's in human nature to anthropomorphize animals, especially dogs because we coexist so closely with them. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, some of the greatest bonds are formed between dog and owner when they are treated as thinking, emoting beings instead of automatons or beasts of burden.

I agree 100% with this, I too treat my pup as a "prince" but never like the King... he treats me like that. I bieleve the relationship is the most important factor in training your dog.

My point was simply you can't "train" your dog talking to him like your best friend, such as the case with this lady I spoke of. There is no way that dog left that situation thinking to himself, "Gosh I feel guilty for licking that man's ice cream, my mom told me that was not good so now I feel bad" He went away thinking "Wow Mom was close to me and petting me talking, she must think I am such a good boy for finding my own food!"

I'm not an expert in this subject, as I am just learning about complex behavior in dogs and how the learning process really works, so I'm sure Sch3FH2 could expand on my beginning point here, we know he is bored at work anyway so he has time to respond to this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Caniche! I'm just a simple redneck and can't understand words like "anthropomorphize" I get stuck at "anth" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Lonny, you're right! I do believe that dog was laughing inside at his owner's antics. I wonder what her kids are like?!!
P.S. Sorry about the big words.....I'll try to use monosyllabic (he! he!) ones next time!
Ya'll have a good day now, eh?!!
(Had to throw in my little Canadianism!!!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What bothers me is the "either or" thinking regarding the canine thought process. Either you think that dogs are like automatons, simply responding to external stimuli with no mind of their own, or that they are just like little children with fur. I see more of these extremes in the pet dog community than I would like. Lonny's story is a perfect example of the latter. I see many examples of the former, where the human expects the dog to just know what he's supposed to do, and doesn't understand their role as the teacher to this living, thinking being. Again, it's not WHETHER they think, it's HOW they think.