I'm just not sure what you mean by "level of training."

Police work requires a quality dog with sound nerves... and I agree this should be "THE standard."

As far as training... forget it. In one local department 2 out of 5 dogs won't bite for real... no sleeve... no bite... period. One of these dogs recently won our regional police trial.

In the Detroit area... there are several dogs that work the street every day... but WILL NOT OUT unless physically removed.

Most k-9's can not reliabley track on varied surfaces. In preparation for re-certificaton 2 years ago I laid a 100 yard track on grass with 2 90 degree turns... 15 minutes later, the 5 year veteran dog could not find me. Should it be this way... no. Is it likely to change anytime soon... no.

There are some VERY good police handlers/dogs and some of the dogs in my department have helped me find people numerous times. But in my experience, this is more of an exception than a rule.

OK, but what I am saying is that the level of training that it takes to put a title on a dog is not the same level of training that it takes to train a good PSD or PP. Different worlds. Especially in the areas of decoy work and understanding/channeling aggression. Sport work is prey work, and not that difficult.

Agreed... as long as you talking about the ideal of a "good police dog."

However, most k-9 handlers in my area train ALL prey these days... just like sport... typically know little about aggression or defense drives etc.

On the box search, if the dog doesn't alert it is not uncommon to pop out with a sleeve and have the dog just STARE at you unless you start to run away. Nope... not kidding.

Also, officers can keep their dog on leash all of the time so they don't require as much off lead training as in sport work.

Lst face it, many departments are so concened about liability, they don't really want their dogs to bite...

Originally posted by VanCamp:
I think that next in line would be dogs that are selected and specifically trained by various vendors to be sold to PDs. These dogs are expensive and very well trained. I don't know of too many Departments that are buying untrained/unstarted dogs and training them. I don't know of any, actually. But, then again I'm not a Police dog trainer.



Here in Ontario, a Police force is seeking out young rescued GSDs to evaluate for police work, I have spoken with them a few times.

Related to the comment about the PSDs not biting the decoy unless he was wearing a sleeve - Ideally, if you had a candidate for a PSD around 16 months or older, that had a little basic prey work and defense, would it be best to move along with the bite work using a bite suit or a sleeve? One problem I have with schH is the extreme emphasis on the grip and the sleeve. It seems that working the dog on a decoy with the suit would prepare it for a fight that was more realistic, and that having to convert a dog trained on a sleeve, schH style, would only slow down progress in the bite work.

quote:

Many departments refuse to work with any dog that was previously trained in sport work. Instead they buy "green" dogs with little formal training of any kind.

In the tests mentioned in the open question it was apparent which dogs had been sport dogs. The third test involved an agitator in a bite suit work the dog up a bit and then retreat to a wall of bushes and grip a anchored pole behind them. the dog was then released for the attack. the sport trained dogs in most cases would search for the arm to bite and not attempt any body bites. some dogs that didn't perform well in the first two tests continued their bad performances by either giving small quick bite and then leaving the agitator or not engaging the agitator at all. all of the dogs in this class minus one were active service dogs. the one dog that wasn't active at the time was a fine example of the quality level needed to do service work. with no training in bite work at all he performed great in the first two tests and in the third took the agitator with a groin bite followed by a leg then pulled the guy off the pole from which he was trying to hold his ground. this dog was later put into police work but removed after a period due to his strength. every bite he made resulted in a broken bone, from legs to arms.

The issues involved with Police Canine Units and their training and deployment go far, FAR beyond the dogs and what they are...or are not...trained to do.

The major issue is often, if not usually, "politics". I use this term as an "umbrella" under which we can place many causes for the less than sterling performance of some units.

Good or bad, it actually begins at the top. If the Chief/Sheriff/Director, or someone very close to them, is not seriously committed to doing what it takes to fund and field a top notch Canine Unit and keep it running correctly, the agency will be better off without one.

This means: selection of good personnel for the right reasons; selecting good, young dogs for basic schools (this is NOT cheap); committment to serious, ongoing training in a realistic manner in the environment the dogs will work in (a 3wk. basic course and 16hr. a month of in-service is not nearly adequate); high risk tactical, legal, and other necessary training for handlers;...it never ends...and it is very expensive.

It means selling the Unit to the troops. It is, after all, their Canine Unit, too, and nothing can kill one faster than officers with no confidance in their own dogs/handlers. It means training all supervisors to understand what the Unit can, and cannot do for them, and how they can maximize the effectiveness of the operation. (around 50% of catches will be made by perimeter units if they are deployed correctly) Supervisors must be given the authority to NOT call for Canine without being constantly second-guessed, or they will burn them out just "covering their ass".

It means trusting handlers to do the right thing at the right time and understanding that there will be street bites (if you make the finds) and that the day may come when one is controversial...welcome to Law Enforcement in America! And it means that handlers must make good, mature judgment calls under stress and stand by them.

These are just a few...a VERY few...things involved with Police Canine. They do not excuse poor performance, improper training focus, lack of training, or incorrect deployment, but perhaps they may help you understand how these things can happen all too easily in a Unit without staunch support from the top down.

Hi Laureen, I have heard this about an Ontario Unit seeking Rescues before. Could you tell me which Dept this is. Not that I have rescues nor would I promote the idea although I am sure that a PSD could be had from a rescue but unlikely. I would be interested as to who this is. We have some outstanding brokers and breeders here so I am not sure why they are looking to rescues unless it is a funding problem.

Perhaps a private e-mail would do.

Jerry

Hi Jerry - my understanding is that it's in part a funding issue in smaller forces and in part a desire to help animals in need. It is also done by police departments in the US, so perhaps they are taking their cue from them?

Any thoughts on this Jerry?