chris, i often hear people say that a certain breed (or their own dog) is 'calm' to point out in a positive way that thei dog simply lacks drive. Now dont take this the wrong way, i'm not accussing you of this in any way. i don't a lot of experience with Dobe's and i'm not downplaying the breed. but is this the case?

Since the original question was which breed is the more *volatile* I wonder if we're all even talking about the same thing?

*Volatility* would seem to have more to do w/threshold than the potential for civil aggression and/or fight.

well i think what is mean by the word "volatile" in this conversation is the dog's tendency towards violence and the heading of the article is 'who is more aggressive?', so i think we were on the right track and answered it just fine.

If any body cares my Doberman, is more protective of me then my work dog that is a GS. Some time I wish my GS had the Dobermans fight drive.

Kilo-2 you need to change your displayed name to your real first and last name before you continue to post.

Any dog can be aggressive. No need to argue that point. There are plenty of good Dobermann working lines that will do police work. They have been and still are used by the German police. My little guy happens to come from some of those bloodlines, and from several street dogs. For those that don't know Dobermanns, its not fair to judge them. What we are mostly seeing in the US now, even some from Europe don't have what it takes. That just happens to be because very few good European breeders sell their gems here to the US. I like Malinois's and GSDs, but certain Dobermann lines will hold the ranks and may even break them.

Originally posted by Steve Foss:
Any dog can be aggressive. No need to argue that point. There are plenty of good Dobermann working lines that will do police work. They have been and still are used by the German police. My little guy happens to come from some of those bloodlines, and from several street dogs. For those that don't know Dobermanns, its not fair to judge them. What we are mostly seeing in the US now, even some from Europe don't have what it takes. That just happens to be because very few good European breeders sell their gems here to the US. I like Malinois's and GSDs, but certain Dobermann lines will hold the ranks and may even break them. What lines are your dogs from? While I do not follow the Doberman lines I have worked a number of them in clubs and a few in home protection. What I have seen of them is that most have nerve issue's and not alot of true aggression. They are loaded with defense. I am not saying that there are not some super workers out there, but speaking with the working folks in Germany, I have been told that the amount of truely great breeders for working Doberman's; you could count on both of your hands. I am talking about breeder's that can produce a Police Patrol Dog, or a top sport dog. It is not common to my knowledge. I can say that I have worked at least thirty Dobes, and in that that number, there was not one super protection dog; if you went and worked the same number of showline GSD you would more then likley find a few that are capable of doing respectable protection work.

You can see my website at http://azazel94.tripod.com then click on the page titled Pedigree. I agree that the good breeders can be counted on both hands. But there are many that people just don't know about. Every bloodline is plagued with nerve issues and problems. The main problem is the Dobermann was bred to be a sharp dog, but people have not been careful and have bred weaker dogs. This creates serious nerve issues. My dog is a combination of hard German dogs and a cross with the older dutch line Dobermanns. My dog is a hard nose SOB that lives for the fight. And gets pissed when his turn is over. He has very high prey drive, strong defense and fight. He is a perfect combination of defense and prey. And will just as soon lick you as tear you up. Very out going. I find this is his best quality. He works like a Malinois during drug work, just keeps going and going. His nerves are rock solid. I haven't found anything to bother him.

This past summer a KNPV helper that was staying close by came to training. He worked my dog in the suit, at the time my dog was about 9 months old. This guy was about 6'6" tall, and when my dog took a chest bite he didn't touch the ground until the session was over. He put alot of stress on my dog, blowing in his ears tossing him around. He was amazed that my dog had such a calm full grip, and that his eyes were fixed dead into the helpers eyes. He said most Dobermanns he had seen have shown chewy grips under stress, or their eyes dance around like they are looking for a way out. We still keep in touch and he still talks about my dog.

Our training director is old school and has tried things that would freak most dogs out. We have done work in the corn field this past summer. I just sent the dog in after the helper. The helper has run off behind the barn and I send the dog and he has to work completely out of sight from me. These Dobermanns are there, and do exist.

I find myself needing to reply to these posts... a really good working Dobermann is not something most people in this country have had the opportunity to experience. When you do find that really nice Dobe, it depends on a handler that has the finesse to work the dog properly and a helper that understands the how to work a highly defensive breed. The bloodlines that I have experience with have high prey/high defense and agression from a very young age... this proves to be a lot for intermediate and novice trainers to handle and I got a lot of dogs back from my breedings in the past.

I also think the biggest reason you don't see more working Dobes in this country is because they are not a breed that transfers bonds easily (if at all). A lot of the competition dogs and police dogs in this country are trained by someone and then transferred to a handler, Dobes don't transfer well.

Cindy,

you have hit the nail right on the head. Dobermanns DO NOT transfer well at all. They form a tight bond with one or two people and that's it.

I also completely agree that it takes a skillfull handler to properly train a dobermann. Its very easy to make an unfixable mistake.

You don't train a dobermann the same way you would a GSD.

I find that a common mistake made by people when they get a dobermann is the fact that they take the dog to a club that is GSD dominated, and they train the dog the same way club members train their GSD's. Then they end up with a dog that bounces off the walls and doesn't do well in sports.

I have seen some kick A$$ dobermanns when I lived in Europe, and some here in the US, so they do exist.

JMO I find that dobermanns are very similar to mals.